Yamaha AD8HR

[rudolpho]

Does anyone have any recent experience with the AD8HR remote control mic preamp/AD from Yamaha? We're considering getting a couple of them for use in a small hall that does a lot of classical and acoustic-type recordings. The remote control feature is important to us and the the fact that the pre's can be controlled easily by our other Yamaha gear is a plus. They claim to use the same preamps as the PM5000 which I've always thought sounded pretty good.

Our other option at this point is something like the Grace M802. It's vastly more expensive (we'd need two of them + remote + AD interfaces) and they wouldn't play quite as nice with our other Yamaha gear but if they sound 10x better we'd most likely get them.

Thanks,
Rudolpho

[mpdonahue]

Originally Posted by rudolpho

Does anyone have any recent experience with the AD8HR remote control mic preamp/AD from Yamaha? We're considering getting a couple of them for use in a small hall that does a lot of classical and acoustic-type recordings. The remote control feature is important to us and the the fact that the pre's can be controlled easily by our other Yamaha gear is a plus. They claim to use the same preamps as the PM5000 which I've always thought sounded pretty good.

Our other option at this point is something like the Grace M802. It's vastly more expensive (we'd need two of them + remote + AD interfaces) and they wouldn't play quite as nice with our other Yamaha gear but if they sound 10x better we'd most likely get them.

Thanks,
Rudolpho

My only issue with the Yamaha is that it has no analog outputs. Other than that, it is a pretty decent unit. At less than $2k it's a bargain. I installed 2 at the NY Philharmonic and they seem to be rock solid. I feed the 2 isolated AES outs down for redundancy on shielded CAT-6 patch cable and it works great.
Soundwise and ergonomically it's no Grace. But at less than 1/2 the cost......
All the best,
Mark

[rudolpho]

Thanks for that.

Do you happen to recall what they were clocked at? I read a review of them that claimed that they couldn't be locked to an external wordclock at 48K (or less). Only rates over 88K worked. I've read the product's manual and have found no mention of this but it would really bone us to get them and not be able to run them at 48K as that's what our system's stuck at.

[Juan T.]

We have been using AD8HR's for a while now with good results and positive comments from others. The rack in the picture has been used with Yamaha PM5D's and DM2000's for both live and broadcast record use. The consoles have seemless preamp control from the console directly. Yes, you can clock them to 48K. In this particular rack the AES audio is converted into Cobranet Ethernet data then to fiber optic Ethernet to transport it to the console location. At the console the fiber is converted back to copper then from Cobranet protocol back to AES audio to feed the console using AES Yamaha MY cards. Our mobile truck project currently under construction will use 14 AD8HR preamps to supply the truck with 112 channels. AES will be converted to two fiber optic MADI streams that will feed a MADI router in the truck.

[fifthcircle]

Recording a concert right now using them... We have 16 channels here going into Ethersound and Cobra systems. Work great for what we need (documentary classical recording). I prefer some of my other gear, but they certainly aren't bad- for a pre with digital out, outside of Grace, it is one of the better ones. Especially when you're looking at bang for the buck.

Oh, and they can clock externally at less than 48K. Ours are running at 44.1 here and they have to clock externally so that multiple boxes can run in a system. Something has to be a master and something has to be a slave.

--Ben

[Jim vanBergen]

I think they are really best utilized at high clock rates and with MADI or similar cabling solutions. I'm not crazy about the pre even when clocked at 96kHz, but it does a good job for most things. I think we'd all rather use Grace, Millenia, etc given the resources, no?

[rudolpho]

Thanks for your comments. I would rather use Grace et. al. too but it's nice to know there're favorable opinions of the Yamaha preamps should we be forced to go in that direction.

Rudolpho

[Remoteness]

Has anyone used the AD8HR with an M7CL?
If so, does it improve the sound quality of this l(ow budget) digital mixer?

I love the tactile control of the M7CL, but need to improve the headroom and headamp quality.

[fifthcircle]

I have- unfortunately our Ethersound system isn't fully functional at the venue where we have this set up which means we don't have the headamp control from the M7, but the console when fed digitally from these pres sounds MUCH better. Basically, you get something that is PM5D quality or better on the small console. You could also just go in digitally off of converters, but it is more junk to carry.

I used the AD8HR pres over ethersound on a one-off rental gig a couple weeks back. Had 48 channels of the AD8 coming back to FOH on a single piece of CAT-5 cable. We had full head-amp control and everything worked great. We used the Yamaha DA boxes for our returns. With ethersound, you get up to 64 channels on a single wire/network. That is total channels- coming and going.

--Ben

[makeitwork]

Originally Posted by Juan T.

We have been using AD8HR's for a while now with good results and positive comments from others. The rack in the picture has been used with Yamaha PM5D's and DM2000's for both live and broadcast record use. The consoles have seemless preamp control from the console directly. Yes, you can clock them to 48K. In this particular rack the AES audio is converted into Cobranet Ethernet data then to fiber optic Ethernet to transport it to the console location. At the console the fiber is converted back to copper then from Cobranet protocol back to AES audio to feed the console using AES Yamaha MY cards. Our mobile truck project currently under construction will use 14 AD8HR preamps to supply the truck with 112 channels. AES will be converted to two fiber optic MADI streams that will feed a MADI router in the truck.

Hey man- sounds rad. Which MADI router are you using? LMK- email too if you can- makeitwork@comcast.net

thanks!!

[Juan T.]

Originally Posted by makeitwork

Hey man- sounds rad. Which MADI router are you using? LMK- email too if you can- makeitwork@comcast.net

thanks!!

We are using the RME MADI bridge. We just finished building and testing a temporary version of the preamp rack that will eventually work with our forthcoming truck. Currently it has 96 channels of Yamaha AD8HR feeding AES digital audio into two RME-6432 Format Converters. Eventually it will have 112 input channels as well as 16 return lines. This week it will be used on our first real remote recording project as part of larger reinforcement job we are also doing. The portable system will consist of a Yamaha DM2000 fitted with Yamaha's recently released MADI MY expansion cards, an ADK Nuendo 4 Recorder w/ MADI in, the MADI bridge and other peripherals. The MADI streams will be routed from the bridge to both the DM2000 and the ADK units directly. A patch preset change on the bridge allows us to playback tracks from the ADK through the DM2000 for review. The ADK will be used soley for tracking and the drives turned over to the client. The DM2000 will be used to mix a stereo mix direct to the video decks. The MADI from the preamp rack is sent to the mix/tracking position using a tactical fiber cable and can be up to 1,000 ft. away. This week the mix/tracking position will be located in an unused room backstage in an arena building for a live multi artist concert. PM me if you would like to discuss any of this further offline.

Juan

[rudolpho]

Sorry to necropost but I just wanted to follow up by saying that we did go with the Yamaha preamps and are very, very happy with the results. They are locked to a Big Ben with the optional video card (the system is recording audio for television as well as providing sound reinforcement for a small hall) and the sound quality is vastly better then the old analog Mackie setup the facility had before. For the price you can't go wrong with these preamps.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

rudolpho

[Karl Jackson]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread like this, but I had a follow on question about heat and rack mounting of the AD8HR. Yamaha recommends 1/3 rack space between AD8HRs. Has anyone (Juan) experienced problems when racking them without the space?

Thanks Much,

kj

[Marlan]

"I installed 2 at the NY Philharmonic and they seem to be rock solid. I feed the 2 isolated AES outs down for redundancy on shielded CAT-6 patch cable and it works great. Soundwise and ergonomically it's no Grace. But at less than 1/2 the cost......"

I hope you don't take offense as I mean no disrespect. I'm only curious. Why would you and Larry make the decision to have them installed at the Phil when they are a top 5 orchestra who can afford to spend a couple of grand extra and not compromise on sound quality?

Are the Yamaha's used for extra microphones other the the most crucial recording chain, or does Larry use them for everything now?

[Northernaudioman]

We have a rack with 6 x AD8HR's that are racked as follows:

1u EMO Racklight
1u Yamaha NAI48ES - Network Interface
2u Yamaha AD8HR x 2
1u Vent
2u Yamaha AD8HR x 2
1u Vent
2u Yamaha AD8HR x 2
2u Vent
4u DA824
2u UPS

And they all seem happy. Not noticed them getting too warm.

Oliver.

[Karl Jackson]

Originally Posted by Northernaudioman

We have a rack with 6 x AD8HR's
...
And they all seem happy. Not noticed them getting too warm.

Oliver.

Thanks Oliver. That's a good looking rack. thumbsup

[mpdonahue]

Originally Posted by Marlan

"I installed 2 at the NY Philharmonic and they seem to be rock solid. I feed the 2 isolated AES outs down for redundancy on shielded CAT-6 patch cable and it works great. Soundwise and ergonomically it's no Grace. But at less than 1/2 the cost......"

I hope you don't take offense as I mean no disrespect. I'm only curious. Why would you and Larry make the decision to have them installed at the Phil when they are a top 5 orchestra who can afford to spend a couple of grand extra and not compromise on sound quality?

Are the Yamaha's used for extra microphones other the the most crucial recording chain, or does Larry use them for everything now?

There are 80 channels of preamp plus another 40 in the mixers, they include Millennia, Hardy, Benchmark, Aphex, Yamaha and Presonus. You'd think that the Philharmonic has deep pockets, but you'd be wrong. Capital expenditures don't come up that often and we choose equipment based on its functionality, performance and cost. One of the reasons for purchasing these preamps is that they have remote control capability and redundant outputs. To be honest, modern preamps are all pretty good these days. If you think it's the preamp causing you to make a substandard recording, you're deluding yourself.
When Larry walked into the Philharmonic 15 years ago, there was a Mackie console and a rack of DAT machines. Today, they are capable of doing a 128 track 96k recording in house, with full redundancy. This capacity gets used a couple times a year for large Broadway productions, like Camelot, My Fair Lady, Sweeney Todd and Candide. The day to day production requirements are between 30 and 40 inputs.
We're in the middle of a major face-lift for the Philharmonic production facility, which is including a complete rewire. There are now 96 lines from the stage level along with an additional 32 above the stage for hanging. Additionally, there is now enough digital infrastructure to handle virtually any production that comes down the pipe. This includes provision for future expansion with 4 Fiber MADI pairs and 6 CAT6A SSTP (10 Gig capable) runs each to stage right, stage left and the roof over the stage. All in all, one of the most comprehensive installs of all the major orchestras.

All the best,
-mark

[tourtelot]

I am SO jealous!

D.

[philper]

>>To be honest, modern preamps are all pretty good these days. If you think it's the preamp causing you to make a substandard recording, you're deluding yourself. <<

Thank you.

phil p

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by Marlan

"I installed 2 at the NY Philharmonic and they seem to be rock solid. I feed the 2 isolated AES outs down for redundancy on shielded CAT-6 patch cable and it works great. Soundwise and ergonomically it's no Grace. But at less than 1/2 the cost......"

I hope you don't take offense as I mean no disrespect. I'm only curious. Why would you and Larry make the decision to have them installed at the Phil when they are a top 5 orchestra who can afford to spend a couple of grand extra and not compromise on sound quality?

Are the Yamaha's used for extra microphones other the the most crucial recording chain, or does Larry use them for everything now?

FWIW, they are using these boxes at Disney Hall with the LA Philharmonic as well...

As I said back in 2008 when this thread started, you could do far worse than these boxes. I use them regularly for high-end recording. I use good mics and the results are quite definitely high-end.

--Ben

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by mpdonahue

...<snip>To be honest, modern preamps are all pretty good these days. If you think it's the preamp causing you to make a substandard recording, you're deluding yourself...<snip>

It's true; moving a microphone a 1/4" can make a bigger sonic difference then the difference between two good quality preamps...

I'm just saying.

[bblackstone]

These definitely need space between or fans in the rack. The converters fail if the preamps overheat. I have seen it happen to more than one.

[Marlan]

If you think it's the preamp causing you to make a substandard recording, you're deluding yourself.
-mark

That's actually not what I said at all nor did I imply one couldn't make decent or even superb recordings with these units. Geez.

[Madien]

Is it possible to remote control these pres from a DM1000 without feeding the console with digital audio ?

I'd like to control these pres with the DM and directly record AES streams in pro tools...

[fifthcircle]

Sort of...

If memory serves me right, there are two D25 AES outputs on the AD8HR. You will have to interface in one way or another- a long 9-pin cable, Ethersound, etc... to control them. At least with ethersound, you need to connect the 9pin to the card and specify a remote to control it.

I haven't tried controlling w/out connecting as there has never been that need. In the setups that I do, one output of the AD8 goes into ethersound and the other goes wherever it is needed (monitor desk, seperate recording, etc...)


-Ben

[Madien]

My idea was to remote control AD8HRs via DM1000 while their "A" AES outputs were plugged into some kind of AES-to-Madi converter (Like RME ADI-6432).
Then the Madi stream goes into a "Madi empowered" Pro Tools system, and PT outputs goes into Madi filled DM 1000 for monitoring...

I wonder if DM 1000 could control PREs via HA remote while their digital audio outputs are not directly plugged into the console.

With DM 1000, I can only get two Madi cards for a global madi channels account of 32. So I can't have enough channels for pro tools 5.1 monitoring and all pre.... And don't have enough ca$h for a new DM 2000 VCM !

[Juan T.]

Hi Madien,

Yes, you can control the AD8HR's like you described. We have done similar setups. We have used our AD8HR's with DM1000, DM2000, PM5D and M7CL without any trouble. We have converted and transported their AES signal over Cobranet, Ethersound and MADI while doing so. If you only intended to use the mixer as a preamp control unit you could try this software and a laptop for a more compact setup.

LVSeries32YAMMON

Hope that helps.

Juan Turro