The Holy Grail Blumlein Pair?

[KSwan]

There's something that's very elegant and mathematically perfect about a Blumlein pair of microphones. The technique is simple and (with proper and careful positioning, etc) it yields precise and accurate stereo imaging. Audiophiles love the Blumlein pair.

So my question to you all: If one has a stellar hall, a stellar group and a stellar performance (i.e. everything is perfect and all we need to do is choose our microphones)... What is the Holy Grail Blumlein pair?

[dbssound1]

I gotta say that for Blumlein I really like my Royers!

[jnorman]

AKG C-424 is probably my favorite, and the newer C-426b is also very good. i looked seriously at the royer sf12 and sf24, and listened carefully to the sample recordings on the royer sampler CD, and they are pretty good, though they tended to have a sort of hole in the middle to my ears, indicating somewhat narrow lobes. i had a pair of royer r-121s, but never had much luck with blumlein with them - always had phase problems for some reason, no matter how carefully i tried to position them. i would suggest a stereo mic designed for this rather than trying to position two mics.

[bcgood]

The R88

[jnorman]

do keep in mind that to use blumlein ribbons (with the exception of the few powered ribbons out there now like the sf24), you will truly need a very fine high gain preamp designed for use with ribbon mics. otherwise, it gets noisy really fast for any kind of quiet or classical material.

[David Spearritt]

Yes, Blumlein is the greatest of all stereo techniques in the right room. We love it and use it a lot.

We have the C426B, an SF24 and have frequent access to a new SM69. They are all very good for different things, but the AKG is probably the desert island mic.

[David Spearritt]

Interesting subject for me at present. Contemplating buying the Linkwitz's Orion loudspeaker kit. These use bidirectional drivers for all three ways, even the tweeter. You listen to the front side of these and the back side radiates to the reverb field. Much like Blumlein but opposite.

[Corran]

The hall I record at most frequently has terrible acoustics. I only recently tried Blumlein and I was blown away!

Right now I use a Bang & Olufsen BM-5 for blumlein. Sounds AMAZING. I just need some better preamps, as mentioned. However EQing out most of the noise my preamps cause and then supplementing another pair of outrigger mics to get the high end back works amazingly well.

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

Yes, Blumlein is the greatest of all stereo techniques in the right room. We love it and use it a lot.

We have frequent access to a new SM69.

I recently used and older 20year+ SM69 and was very pleased with the results - much more that the data sheet indicated I should be. But then the performance was rather good

Used a pair of DPA 4006 as outriggers and the overall effect was very nice.

Again probably related solely to the actual performance rather than anything I stumbled upon.

Best
Larry

[John Willett]

Two MKH 30s

[Mazo Audio]

I had great success with the MKH mics as well, I was using a pair of 800's. A pair of 414's is nothing to sneeze at either. Also our LD Beyer's have an interesting sound.

This being GS I doubt that ONE pair would ever be enough

Peace

[Plush]

I vote for the Soundfield microphone as the best Blumlein pair.

Performance is technically perfect. 90 degree pattern is always exactly aligned.

[mrsteaks]

I'm happy, usually, with the results I get from my SF12, especially on choral and strings. Sometimes I'm thrilled, and sometimes I'm disappointed. What I've found interesting is that not only does the mic (the pattern) work well in the obvious rooms (with good decay and so forth) but it works equally well in dry rooms. In problematic rooms (odd shapes, odd decays, and odd acoustics) I've found it is best to go another route.

[KSwan]

Thanks for mentioning the soundfield microphone technique, Plush. I had never heard of that before.

[sonare]

I really love the results from my SF12, but using Schoeps MK2 flankers really ices the cake-- if you are close then the edges are not "phase wierd," it provides the transients that the ribbon cannot capture (and does it without without being nasty) and just opens up everything is a really pleasing way.

And the imaging is close to "3 dimensional."

Rich

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Plush

I vote for the Soundfield microphone as the best Blumlein pair.

Performance is technically perfect. 90 degree pattern is always exactly aligned.

???

[David Spearritt]

bcgood, the soundfield mic contains 4 cardioid capsules arranged on the surface of a tetrahedron. These are mathematically processed to resolve to 3 orthogonal figure 8's and an omni and the maths/processing also time aligns the capsule signals. This ensures the most accurate coincident mic array known to man, and is what Plushy is referring to.

SoundField: Benefits of a SoundField System

The imaging and depth this mic is capable of is stunning. I have only heard an early version of the electronics which was noisy and the only dissappointment for me. I am told that all the new signal processing is quiet and greatly improved.

[Ken K]

Originally Posted by sonare

I really love the results from my SF12, but using Schoeps MK2 flankers really ices the cake-- if you are close then the edges are not "phase wierd," it provides the transients that the ribbon cannot capture (and does it without without being nasty) and just opens up everything is a really pleasing way.

And the imaging is close to "3 dimensional."

Rich

Rich,

What do you mean by close? Are you talking about the distance from the sound source or the distance between the flankers?

Thanks,

Ken K

[audiothings]

no discussion on blumlein can go without the mention of kavi alexander and bob katz. do a search for the former here, and you'll come up with some interesting stuff. maybe mr. katz, who has made some stellar blumlein recordings can/will chip in here. if memory serves, a modified akg stereo mic was favoured by bob? as for kavi, last we know, he was using a pair of pearl elm-b microphones. check 'em out, they are quite unique, in that they have a height to width ratio of 7:1.

[beyarecords]

Originally Posted by Plush

I vote for the Soundfield microphone as the best Blumlein pair.

Which one? Care to elaborate a bit more on this?

Many thanks.

[Plush]

Hello Uzo et al,

Here we use the Soundfield 422 system. It is a pretty amazing stereo mic offering all patterns. You can also record 4 channels out of the system for B format. Please do a google search about B format. With software from Soundfield, we can run a decoding on our SADiE system. This allows you to tweak the pick-up----zoom in or out on the sound, turn the mic left or right, and adjust the angle of the pick-up.

Mostly, however, we just use it as a fantastic Blumlein stereo mic.

It is true, as David mentions, that older versions (MK. III, IV) were noisy. The current versions, (ie.--- 422, MK. V) are not noisy and useable even for soft sounding pick-ups.

I have found that the mic works best in reverberant acoustics.

[leddy]

Has anyone used a pair of Beyer M130's?

[videoteque]

I have found that the mic works best in reverberant acoustics.

How far do you recomend to put it from sources??

I mean, for example, if you are video-taping a quartet concert, how far can be the microphone from the quartet??

[aracu]

Another vote for both the AKG426 and Royer sf24, which have quite different
character from one another, although both have a midrange warmth.

Those elm-b mics are interesting, I was wondering if anyone here has tried
them out.

[loranoyd]

I record the community orchestra I play in using a pair of M130s as the stereo pair and part of a 5 mic arrangement. I absolutely love the sound of the string sections as recorded by the M130s in Blumlein. Very flattering in an 1950s-style way, but I really really like the "older recording" sound. I can second the caveat mentioned in an earlier post: namely that these ribbons need lots and lots of really good gain. I use two channels of John Hardy M1 for these babies, and they really shine. (Too many "reallys" in this post!) Other preamps I had just couldn't cut it.

That said, my co-engineer (my wife. I call her "the ears," since hers are much better than mine!) notes a certain lack of precision and high frequency pinpoint clarity in the Beyer blumlein. We solve that, for the moment, with a Neumann KM184 attached just under the blumlein pair and pointing dead center at the orchestra. This gets the job done for now, but what we really want are some Schoeps... !!!

Originally Posted by leddy

Has anyone used a pair of Beyer M130's?

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by loranoyd

We solve that, for the moment, with a Neumann KM184 attached just under the blumlein pair and pointing dead center at the orchestra. This gets the job done for now, but what we really want are some Schoeps... !!!

Or a pair of DPA 4006!

You should try the AEA TRP with your ribbons, if you can. Terrifically smooth preamp, in a DAV sort of way. Huge gain and very quiet.

[Nu-tra]

I use two Joly modded Apex 205's!! Crazy good!

[staudio]

Originally Posted by Plush

I vote for the Soundfield microphone as the best Blumlein pair.

Performance is technically perfect. 90 degree pattern is always exactly aligned.

Soundfield is so realistic. It's like being in the room with the players. Stereo never has sounded better.

[beyarecords]

Originally Posted by Plush

Hello Uzo et al,

Here we use the Soundfield 422 system. It is a pretty amazing stereo mic offering all patterns. You can also record 4 channels out of the system for B format. Please do a google search about B format. With software from Soundfield, we can run a decoding on our SADiE system. This allows you to tweak the pick-up----zoom in or out on the sound, turn the mic left or right, and adjust the angle of the pick-up.

Mostly, however, we just use it as a fantastic Blumlein stereo mic.

It is true, as David mentions, that older versions (MK. III, IV) were noisy. The current versions, (ie.--- 422, MK. V) are not noisy and useable even for soft sounding pick-ups.

I have found that the mic works best in reverberant acoustics.

Man thanks, Plush. I will look into it.

[sonare]

Originally Posted by Ken K

Rich,

What do you mean by close? Are you talking about the distance from the sound source or the distance between the flankers?

Thanks,

Ken K

I am talking about the distance from the SF12 to the ensemble (usually choral). When the group exceeds 90 degrees in width (as "seen" by the mic) the edges get very phase-stupid and the flankers 1) help with localization 2) open up the sound 3) augment the low end-- helpful in choir and organ.

Rich