recording baby grand piano

[BruceB]

This really is a 2 part question. I have an offer to buy a 1920's Sohmer baby grand in very good shape for $1000.00 from a friend for my studio. First, this sounds like a great deal (if it's not a basket case-which it's not) and I want to know what anyone knows. A quick ebay check shows several 5ft baby Sohmers going for 6-11k.

It is really only of use to me it is practical for a studio. That is, even if it's a great piano, how does a baby grand in general record. I know it's kind of a vague question. I know the instrument and my room in particular ( 24x 28x 10 ft ceiling, well treated room) mic placement etc. all make a difference. I seem to remember somewhere reading that you really won't get a great full recorded sound from a baby grand. I hope that's not true.

The piano is in Queens, NY and my studio is in Maine. I'm in Hawaii right now so I won't be able to see it for awhile- a month or so. I do a lot of chamber music recording in a beautiful hall with an 9ft Seinway. I am NOT expecting that kind of sound.....

I will be recording jazz mostly and some singer songwriter stuff.

Any experienced wisdom here??

Thanks,
Bruce

[joelpatterson]

Lots of experience, here... but wisdom? That's an open question.

I've recorded plenty of baby grands in all kinds of situations... it's taught me that any halfway decent (or halfway indecent) working piano that's tuned properly and played with brio and gusto will work fine. The making or breaking is always in the mic placement and the willingness to slave over the tracks and pull out all the stops in your mixing bag.

I'd go for it. Sounds like a deal.

[BruceB]

let's just ignore the question of value for this instrument as in talking just now to my piano guru, there really is no way to tell if this is a good deal without a proper appraisal. She could give me the piano and it may not be worth it. Makes sense to me.

I would like to know folk's experience with baby grands in general as far as recording.

Thanks,
Bruce

[BruceB]

Thanks Joel. That's encouraging. I have a funky upright in my place now that I have wheedled some good sounds out of. Lemme at it.....!

My piano guy will get me a name of an appraiser in NY to look at it soon. It's in Queens- anyone know someone?

[joelpatterson]

Well, you got a point, wretched pianos are ghastly to have to work with... but then, I once recorded a baby grand that looked like it had spent time underwater and the player ended up ordering a whole bunch of the CD's to show off her playing...

[rainy-taxi]

Originally Posted by BruceB

I seem to remember somewhere reading that you really won't get a great full recorded sound from a baby grand. I hope that's not true.

Read that too and more then once so I think it really is true. I have the idea it has to do with the length of the strings which is why a medium grand or long concert grand sounds better then the baby grand.

But I think that a baby grand should be better then anything emulated out there. Close miking and reverb can maybe do the trick. Don't know I don't have experience with recording piano's (wish I had a real piano...)

Sound on sound magazine recently had a very good and large article about recording them (with a lot of samples online to hear the difference in mic placements).

What kind of sound are you after? More distant piano or more very close miked (like for example Lyle Mays?)

[lord_bunny]

I have a nordheimer baby grand from 1927. It sounds better than using samples or synths for most applications. It doesn't sound like a concert gran by a long-shot. I just record a 9' steinway in a small theater because the project demanded a brighter, fuller and more polished sound than my studio piano.

One huge asset is preproduction.... being able to work with songwriters with acoustics and a real piano that sounds nice helps boost morale in the room.

[jnorman]

i have a kimball baby grand in my studio, and it does a pretty good job for pieces where it is an accompaniment instrument or part of a mix. i would not try to do a serious solo piano recording on it. i have recorded a 7'4" bosendorfer for a couple of CD projects, and believe me, there aint a baby grand in the world that will do what a good grand piano can do.

[maxhype]

Another important element to consider in a piano for recording is how well the instrument stays in tune. My experience as a pianist is that larger well-constructed grands stay in tune better than baby grands or uprights. If the humidity is heavy or especially dry the instrument can fall out of tune fairly quickly (avoid steam radiators especially) - and a few sour notes can make a recording unuseable (unless you're going for the 'colored' sound of some of the Coldplay stuff).

For production recording I prefer either the best modern emulations (I use the Bluther Digital Model One and love the flexibility), or else a good full grand piano tuned in a great room, ideally.

I'd still take that deal though if the piano checks out.

[BruceB]

Thanks everybody!

I am going for a close mic'ed sound. I have a jazz quartet project coming up and I want everybody playing at once in the same room, close mic'ing it is. Other projects will also need close mic'ing. I don't anticipate much solo piano work. I have other options for that in some nice rooms/halls. My other option is to rent one for a few weeks. Software would work, but part of this jazz project is to demo a piano mic'ing system loaned to me by the manufacturer.

[BruceB]

Ability to hold a tuning is a big part of the appraisal. As I understand it, the pin block is critical here and needs to be in good shape to hold a tune. My current upright holds ok, totally depending on the group. I have some clients who would laugh at it, some have said, "sounds ok to me", other know it's not perfect and want that sound. A recent contra-dance band wanted the "dance hall" sound. One of my best friends is a concert pianist and would never consider recording on it.

Variety is the spice of life...........YMMV..........

[Midiguy]

I differ a bit from the above comments. I own a Yamaha GA1 baby grand, which is a smidge under 5'. It's 4 years old, and I've had it professionally voiced a couple of times. It recods okay, but on a small piano like that, certain things can reall stick out and be really annoying. An exmaple - the breaking point in the lower register between wound strings and steel strings. It can really show up sometimes in a mix where Piano is the predominat instrument. I grew up as a pianist, and for recording purposes, I actually prefer recording on my Yamaha S90ES digital. I shopped for a year, looking at all the soft synths and digital pianos out there and finally settled on the S90ES. Soft synth pianos alwas feel detached from the keyboard to me (latency and velocity switching always felt wierd). For me, the S90ES is the best compromise out there.