Surround positions

[videoteque]

I want to ask how would you pan for surround the mics in two situations:

Chamber music??

Jazz??

What would you send in the subwoofer??

[dbssound1]

For chamber music I would have all of the traditional "stereo" content in the front, and a pair of ambient microphones in the rear. When it works, I prefer to record discrete channels for each speaker.

If it is continuo with a soloist, I will usually put them in the center channel.

Very little goes to the sub, if anything. usually low frequencies of a cello, or other deep rich instrument. in chamber music, the addition of the sub can cause an unnatural reproduction of the performance, so use it wisely. It can sound great on an organ recording!

All of that said, it depends on the project and the material.

[huub]

This 5 mic surround capture by lindberg lyd, norway looks like it sounds cool..
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/attach/jpg.gif
jpg.gif

Haven't heard the recording though..

huub

[videoteque]

The "problem" of surround is that the listener has always had the instruments in front with stereo. Would you pan instruments in the rear?? In jazz??

[huub]

Well as you can see in my pic, the guys at lindberg, who won a grammy for best surround, have, in the case of this particular recording, put the musicians around the mics, thus putting the flutes and horns in the rear speakers.. Or so it seems..

[Gerax]

In my experiences with surround recording of classical music I always had the approach where the mics represented the point of view of a possible listener at a live gig even though the recording may not me a live gig agt all...So, I had my front Decca Tree which then gets panned LCR and a stereo pair (usually an ORTF) for the surrounds. I found (I belive it was here on GS) the schematics and drawings with really precise measures of a simple "Surround Decca" bracket that I built myself to have the mics aimed and pointed with consistency. I used it several times and it works quite good.
This approach works quite well for live recordings, where you have the majority of sound sources and instruments on the front three mics, just like you'd hear when sitting in, say, third or fourth row, and hearing ambience of the venue and audience in the surround channels. I went a step further and panned the external instruments a bit in the surrounds to expand the sense of envelopment, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Just try various solutions and see what sounds best for the recording/production you're working.

Hope this helps

L.G.

[Legacy]

Basically there are no rules - if it sounds good (on 2 systems - one full range and one with a high bass management Xover) it works. Most surround releases I've heard are pretty conventional audience perspective. This can be very satisfying / enveloping as long as the surrounds are not really low / distant so some of the front wraps around to the rear slightly. Its this interaction IMO that allows the dynamics to be enhanced by the space being excited ala real life.

The Lyndberg Lyd Mozart recording is really beautiful in surround IMO and is not a totally conventional placement. Also Rachel Podger's Vivaldi Concerti on Channel Classics is beautiful in surround.

I worked on a surround recording of a Steve Reich piece and really wanted to envelope people inside the ensemble as there are waves of interlocking sounds throughout. When mixing I found that since different parts of the group interlocked with each other part of the group at some time in the piece there was always a point where the 2 parts were one front and one rear which required immense ammounts of Dramamine to withstand

The conventional audience perspective was much more subtle and satisfying.

I also stay away from the sub in classical and have always ended up with a 5.0 mix (very subtle center) or sometimes a 4.0 (no center).

Best,
Silas

[bove]

I agree that it would sound nice to have the room sound in the surround channels, giving the impression that you are watching the musicians perform on a stage in front of you. Mixing this way would also be more forgiving to an improperly calibrated playback system, since you'd simply be dealing with ambient sounds.

A mix with instruments behind you could also be very interesting to listen to, assuming it was done well. When you perform with an orchestra, you get the similar effect of sounds coming at you from all directions. It's usually a cool way to hear the music.

I have noticed recently on a number of studio jobs I've done in NYC for film and TV that the engineers appear to have a very widely spaced pair to the rear of the orchestra... It's possible that they may use these in the surround channels, and give you some of the "sitting in the orchestra" effect.

I watched the Academy Awards show this year at a place with a surround system, and noticed that it sounded as if some of the direct orchestra sound was mixed into the rear channels. The orchestra sounded awesome during the show, by the way.

[videoteque]

Talking just about music, I feel that sourround should be "experimented" to the max, with direct instruments sounds panned in any speaker.

But once we talk about a video production, I feel it can be strange to view a violin in front of you and hear it coming from the back...??