Surround location capture?

soundguydave · 26th March 2008

Has anyone developed any methods for capturing surround sound on location for video? I've been reading about the holophone mic, and I know a Deva can capture 10 tracks of audio, but are there other ways people have been doing it? Is there anyway to record it all remotely? (i.e the mics are far away or on the move)

mohthom · 26th March 2008

Ambisonics, double MS, modified decca tree . . . take your pick!

It sounds like you're after ambisonic capture to me, but I am a little biased

MohThoM

soundguydave · 26th March 2008

The problem is its for a video type setting where it would be strapped to a moving vehicle, so it would need to be compact, rugged and neat.

huub · 26th March 2008

Welll, a simple 1 mic solution is the soundfield, which can record in the 4channel b-format, decodable to whatever form of surround or stereo.
It's pretty expensive though..
There's analog and digital versions..

SoundField: Welcome to SoundField

soundguydave · 26th March 2008

I'll check that out too. Another question I have is does anybody know of a film style mixer or company that captures surround like this?

videoteque · 26th March 2008

I'm interested too!!!!!!!! thumbsupthumbsup

pkautzsch · 26th March 2008

I'd think of some kind of double MS first. With the Schoeps CCM mics this can be mounted very easily to a boom or even to a camera. They did a Lang Lang music documentary with that setup.

However, I'm not quite sure about the usefulness of surround recording on location. I mean, there's a camera (some of them have FANS!!! - stupid video gear designers, don't seem to have ears), maybe there's a dolly, there's a director, a cam assistant, lots of other "highly important" folks, all behind the cam, and that's where your rear mics are pointing to.
Sound for picture is, most times, severely post-produced, and the post guys want to have as much flexibility as they can get, as the sound design and mixing is where the creation of the soundstage actually happens. I've found good old mono to be best on location. For backgrounds, I'd maybe consider surround stuff, but so far, I've been more than content with normal MS stereo, or even just mono.

huub · 26th March 2008

But I'm sure for video there's a future for location surround capture..
Lots of TV channels are HD and surround now, and in TV there's not the same time, budget and care for surround post work..

Although your comments about noisy fans and noisy people are very true of course..

soundguydave · 26th March 2008

Im pushing to have sound captured traditionally and having the surround created in post, but the client is really into having surround captured "on set". Its not really a traditional set, more of documentary drive around in a car etc type thing. I'm pushing for the way I mentioned, but want to be prepared if they are adamant about capturing surround.

pkautzsch · 26th March 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by huub

But I'm sure for video there's a future for location surround capture..
Lots of TV channels are HD and surround now, and in TV there's not the same time, budget and care for surround post work..

I guess, though, that cheaply produced surround TV will rather use some archive background stuff to fill the rear channels. They should be wise enough not to have the consumer listen to the crew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundguydave

Im pushing to have sound captured traditionally and having the surround created in post, but the client is really into having surround captured "on set". Its not really a traditional set, more of documentary drive around in a car etc type thing. I'm pushing for the way I mentioned, but want to be prepared if they are adamant about capturing surround.

Well, for a documentary it might indeed be good. That's basically what they did on the Lang Lang documentary I mentioned. If the crew is quiet enough...but that's what you'll have to explain to them thoroughly. They will still have a lot to do in post, probably even more than if it was captured traditionally.
How are you going to monitor?
Sounds like an interesting project.

soundguydave · 26th March 2008

Quote:

Well, for a documentary it might indeed be good. That's basically what they did on the Lang Lang documentary I mentioned. If the crew is quiet enough...but that's what you'll have to explain to them thoroughly. They will still have a lot to do in post, probably even more than if it was captured traditionally.
How are you going to monitor?
Sounds like an interesting project.

It is fixing up to be cool, and I'm normally a post guy so it'll be fun to get out in the field if it works out. Unfortunately I can't speak too much of the project right now, but hopefully I can in the future. I think what I might do is run the holophone head, 6-7 channels and then use 3-4 remaining channels of the Deva to record other other mics how I want. So if the surround material doesn't translate, I'll still have good recordings of what i need and we can create the surround sound in post. Its mostly environment recording, so I don't have to worry about any dialog.

Shadow_7 · 27th March 2008

As visions of some crazed camera man with three MR-1000's straped over his shoulders in addition to a large camera on his shoulder. And a suspended huluhoop with five sE Titans mounted to it wondering around. As he wonders into a small mountainous german town all you hear is screaming and gun fire. And the phrase "Ist vine b0rg".

Sorry, overactive imagination. And I have no ideal what the german would be in the real world. Although originally I thought of a small african village where the camera man was never heard from again, but the gear showed up on eBay three days later.

As I wonder what single mic comes with a 5 way diaphram and what that symbol looks like on the pattern selection switch.

26th March 2008	#1
soundguydave Gear addict Joined: Feb 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 497 Thread Starter	Surround location capture? Has anyone developed any methods for capturing surround sound on location for video? I've been reading about the holophone mic, and I know a Deva can capture 10 tracks of audio, but are there other ways people have been doing it? Is there anyway to record it all remotely? (i.e the mics are far away or on the move) __________________ ________________________________________-- Dave K. Freelance Sound Designer & Mixer

26th March 2008	#2
mohthom Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 638	Ambisonics, double MS, modified decca tree . . . take your pick! It sounds like you're after ambisonic capture to me, but I am a little biased MohThoM __________________

26th March 2008	#7
pkautzsch Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2006 Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 1,521	I'd think of some kind of double MS first. With the Schoeps CCM mics this can be mounted very easily to a boom or even to a camera. They did a Lang Lang music documentary with that setup. However, I'm not quite sure about the usefulness of surround recording on location. I mean, there's a camera (some of them have FANS!!! - stupid video gear designers, don't seem to have ears), maybe there's a dolly, there's a director, a cam assistant, lots of other "highly important" folks, all behind the cam, and that's where your rear mics are pointing to. Sound for picture is, most times, severely post-produced, and the post guys want to have as much flexibility as they can get, as the sound design and mixing is where the creation of the soundstage actually happens. I've found good old mono to be best on location. For backgrounds, I'd maybe consider surround stuff, but so far, I've been more than content with normal MS stereo, or even just mono. __________________ Microphones always make me sound louder and better! -- Guitar Girl

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26th March 2008	#4
huub Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Location: amsterdam Posts: 1,208	Welll, a simple 1 mic solution is the soundfield, which can record in the 4channel b-format, decodable to whatever form of surround or stereo. It's pretty expensive though.. There's analog and digital versions.. SoundField: Welcome to SoundField

26th March 2008	#6
videoteque Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Near Rome, Italy Posts: 829	I'm interested too!!!!!!!! thumbsupthumbsup

27th March 2008	#12
Shadow_7 Banned Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 595	As visions of some crazed camera man with three MR-1000's straped over his shoulders in addition to a large camera on his shoulder. And a suspended huluhoop with five sE Titans mounted to it wondering around. As he wonders into a small mountainous german town all you hear is screaming and gun fire. And the phrase "Ist vine b0rg". Sorry, overactive imagination. And I have no ideal what the german would be in the real world. Although originally I thought of a small african village where the camera man was never heard from again, but the gear showed up on eBay three days later. As I wonder what single mic comes with a 5 way diaphram and what that symbol looks like on the pattern selection switch.