DPA-4060 vs DPA-4006 The Battle, recording made by Onno and Gaston

[Gaston69]

I want you to listen to the A & B samples first and tell me what you liked best, this thread is to let people hear the differences between a DPA-4060 (315,- Euros) and a DPA-4006 (2290,-).

The music (Jonannes Passion, J.S.Bach) you will listen to is the Kamerkoor Maastricht with the Kerkkoor from Hasselt, the conductor is Ludo Claesen and the recordings were made last Thursday in the Heilig Hart church in Hasselt.

The microphones were placed on the same mic stand, just behind the conductor and approx. 3.4m hight.

The DPA 4060 is connected to a Jaap de Jong custom made pre-amp, AD converter = Sound Enhancer 16 Bit 44.1Khz, Tascam DAT recorder.

The DPA 4006 is connected to the "Original" Paintpot, Recorder = Korg MR-1000.

I will tell you not which is A or B, but just want you to judged based on what you hear.

Good luck

[d_fu]

Bach with a dutch accent...

My guess would be that B is the 4006... Assuming you used free-field cones. Listening on mid-range Beyer cans (DT331)
Could you level-match the samples a bit?

Daniel

[Gaston69]

2 more samples,

[summer_room]

I'm with Daniel - A 4060, B 4006.
B sounds more open to me.

-jon

[d_fu]

Same tendency - A is a bit thin and not too pleasant. B sounds more balanced to me, but not necessarily open/bright.

Both sound a bit narrow IMHO, as a result of the AB spacing.

[Rutger]

A = 4060
B = 4006

You can hear that the 4006 has more directivity in the highs because of the larger capsule diameter.

[Gaston69]

By the way do you like also what you have heard?

And is the price difference fair?

[Rutger]

I really like the A samples.
Both are very good recordings but the front to back contrast is a little to big for my taste. And of course the 4006 are to expansive.

Rutger

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by Gaston69

By the way do you like also what you have heard?

And is the price difference fair?

I settled on B almost immediately as being better for me.

Is the price fair? Well, that's really hard to say. I imagine it would have a great deal to do with how much the mic costs to manufacture, etc.

I do know that I wouldn't be happy with the "A" mics. So it doesn't matter how much or little they cost-they are not for me.

The "B" mics I would like to try!

But there's one other very big problem here: It's difficult to draw any conclusions as the recording chain is so different.

[RichS]

Prefer the A samples. Although a tad bright, they convey a greater sense of "air" in the sound of the soloist/instruments, and a better representation of the performance space... in other words, sounds more like being there.

I've sung the work (as a soloist) several times, and while either recording would be acceptable, my decision is based more on "musicality" than a preference for one type of mic sound over the other. Ultimately, it's the music that counts most.

[hanuman]

Thanks for posting DPA samples. I think 4006 is B but the difference is subtle. I was surprised by the pan, I reversed the headset to check my ears. (Daniel, if JSB would have been Italian and you too, you would have said: 'Wow, how nice you perform our composer and how well is your pronounciation.....')

BTW The Dutch have a superior alternative for DPA. It is called Sonodore microphones and microphone pre-amplifiers

[bcgood]

I listened to the samples both on my monitors and my headphones. I kept listening to the samples back and forth and after this last listen I would have to say that my favorite sample is sample B. Sample B is quieter and has a nice smooth element to it that I liked. Sample A is nice as well, it is a little bit brighter and does sound very present, yet I didn't like the little bit of background noise in this sample.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by hanuman

BTW The Dutch have a superior alternative for DPA. It is called Sonodore microphones and microphone pre-amplifiers

By what and whose measure are they superior? And why then hasn't everyone ridded themselves of their DPA's? The Sonodores have been out for awhile, after all, they've had ample time to penetrate the market. Do we really need yet another method of powering mics? Which is not at all to say that they're not good-in fact, I'd like to try them. But I'm not sure about pronouncing a product "superior."


I forgot to thank the OP for posting these files! I enjoyed hearing them.

BTW, the price for the 4060 is about the same as here, the 4006 is available for quite a lot less than quoted above.

[hanuman]

I don't know. I do know however that they started distributing in the States less then half a year ago. I read comparisons in a German magazine. Here is a Barry Hufker opinion: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/2205/0 I do not know where you are but maybe you can try them.

[mrsteaks]

Hmmm. I won't discard either recording. Both were good. I prefered B, though, because of the smoothness and depth.

I'd be curious to hear a comparison made of the DPA's using the same recording chain, ie: same preamp, same recorder. It would be more indicative of the sound of the mics.

[summer_room]

Gaston: 4060 with or without the grid?

Thanks for the samples!

best - jon

[Gaston69]

The 4060 was without the grid.

The 4006 had it's standard grid.

[K.C.]

The Korg was recording in which format ?

The differences between the samples noted so far could be due to the Pre and A/D, as well as the mics.

Have you tracked the 4006s with the other guys gear and compared the differences in the chain ?

I own an original 4006 and it is an incredible mic. It was used to track much of Cat Steven's guitar back in the day.

[newyorker42]

I own a pair of 4006TLs. They are my only mics and I bought them just this year. I'm really, really hoping I can tell the difference because there was surely a difference in price and I started out thinking I would just get the 4060s.

I think the B samples are the 4006 mics. Are they the newer TL model? This supposedly makes a (big?) difference, and people here rarely differentiate when they talk about 4006s.

I think some manipulation was done with the A samples, possibly some eq. They sound overly hyped in the top end and there is a higher noise floor. But both samples sound very good. And I really like the singer, relatively non-dramatic and pure sounding voice, which I always favor in vocal and opera music personally. Who is she?

To honor folks' requests for monitoring equipment, I listened through Apogee Ensemble D/A, Sony MDR-7506 headphones and Dynaudio BM5A powered nearfields.

John

[K.C.]

Originally Posted by newyorker42

I think the B samples are the 4006 mics. Are they the newer TL model?

I'd put money on the 4006s used here being original, not the TLs. They do sound different.

I'd also be that neither recording has any EQ.

[jnorman]

i received my copy of the free DPA demo CD (recording the piano) the other day, and there are several samples of the 4006 and the 4061 mics on a grand piano. the 4061s do extremely well in comparison.

[newyorker42]

Originally Posted by jnorman

i received my copy of the free DPA demo CD (recording the piano) the other day, and there are several samples of the 4006 and the 4061 mics on a grand piano. the 4061s do extremely well in comparison.

Were the examples for both on the CD close mic'ed? My guess is that you'd be able to tell the difference more when mic'ing in a "classical" position, i.e., a spaced pair several meters away from the piano and 2-3 meters high.

[K.C.]

Originally Posted by newyorker42

Were the examples for both on the CD close mic'ed? My guess is that you'd be able to tell the difference more when mic'ing in a "classical" position, i.e., a spaced pair several meters away from the piano and 2-3 meters high.

Quoting DPA:

DPA Microphones has produced a Super Audio CD with a number of stereo comparison and demonstration recordings of a grand piano. It is a Hybrid SACD and can be played on both regular CD players and SACD players.

What is on the disc?
On this SACD the artist Niels Thybo plays seven of his own compositions on a grand piano, miked up with different microphone kits from DPA. Each kit is suitable for various microphone placements.

In the enclosed booklet we describe a number of useful ways to record and amplify a grand piano using DPA microphones. As every piano, room, and player is different, all setups should be regarded as guidelines. There are no strict rules and there is no substitute for using your ears to adjust the sound to your liking.

[bcgood]

That's funny I just got this CD in the mail a few days ago as well.

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by RichS

... while either recording would be acceptable, my decision is based more on "musicality" than a preference for one type of mic sound over the other. Ultimately, it's the music that counts most.

Agreed 100%

[Gaston69]

Hello Guys,

Yes all of you are right,

Sample A = DPA 4060 Recorded by Onno Scholtze

Sample B = DPA 4006 Recorded by myself.

And I also agree with some members that DPA 4060 is more bright/open/depth and that the sound is more "round/musical" of the DPA 4006.

Personally I think and that is what I also discussed with ONNO that it's a matter of taste and like Rich sad it's the music that counts.

However we (Onno & I) thought that it was good idea to let you hear the difference and please bare in mind that you are talking about a huge price difference even if you can get the DPA 4006 a lot cheaper (which I did for a pair of second hand (15 years old) ones for 1500.- Euros.)

On the otherhand the DPA 4060 can be mounted almost invisible which my be a pre in certain concerts.

There will be more samples comming up from Onno and I, such like Onno's test/listening course CD which might help people to setup their listening room, or to get familiar how jitter sounds like, and for example the differences between a good mono and stereo recording and much more....

Onno is not so fast with computers therefor I will help Onno with setting this threads up and might even help answering your questions i.e. words I will forward Onno's knowledge etc etc.

Whish you a nice Easter, here in Belgium it's snowing right now and everything is white, looks more like Christmas LOL

Regards,

Gaston

[mosrite]

Firstly, thankyou Gaston for taking the time to post these comparisons. If not wholly scientific it is indeed fun

It is obviously difficult to properly compare the mics themselves with such a difference in signal chain but nethertheless:

Sample B was by far my favourite. No contest.

Some described Sample A as 'airy' whereas what I hear is a lightness, a lack of solidity and an abundance of noise (the cheap DPA's major weakness in my opinion). There was also a slight brittleness to the sound that could be attributed to the ADC's in that particular chain.

Sample B had a much smoother and fuller midrange, a more even sound across the spectrum and a realism and solidity to the instuments and voice. In fact, listen to the audience cough in both samples as another example of realism. To me the coughing in Sample A sound less real than in Sample B

In terms of the noise issue and how it affects the sound: Sample A sounds like it is recorded against a grey backdrop, sample B has that inky black silence that you only get with higher end microphones.

[newyorker42]

Originally Posted by Gaston69

However we (Onno & I) thought that it was good idea to let you hear the difference and please bare in mind that you are talking about a huge price difference even if you can get the DPA 4006 a lot cheaper (which I did for a pair of second hand (15 years old) ones for 1500.- Euros.)

It would be interesting to hear the comparison between the old 4006 pair you have and a pair of new 4006TLs.

By the way, you supposedly can upgrade your mics to the TL version.

John

[dirkjan]

Nice thread Gaston.

Recording in Maastricht: Jonannes Passion with a soft 'g'.

Loaded the samples into my DAW so I could A/B them.
Both recordings are great. The A-samples sound a little bit hyped and flat. The B-samples are the better ones; more musical. The coughing thing Mosrite mentioned, struck me as well when I was listening.

[mohthom]

I've got a date with a pair of 1037s (hooked up to two 7070s) to check these out later on . . . I'm looking forward to it!

MohThoM