Acoustic guitar and flute - mix problem...

jnorman · 19th March 2008, 05:58 PM

doing some acoustic guitar and flute duos of traditional celtic tunes. i am micing the flute at around 3-4 feet out, and using a standard guitar stereo setup with mics at 12th fret and one on soundboard, about 6-8" out.

when i try to mix these two sources together, the guitar, of course, sounds like it is well in front of the flute, which makes it sound like they are not playing together in the same place. if i pull the guitar mics back to 3-4 feet like the flute, the guiar sound is not satisfactory.

how would you solve this problem? thanks.

gainstages · 19th March 2008, 06:36 PM

try dipping the guitar a bit around 5k, if that doesn' tdo it, sweep around a bit in the high mids and see if you can find that spot.

are you using any reverb? if so, try to adjust the pre-delay on both to adjust the relative image front to back

have you tried just tracking them together to begin with?

jnorman · 19th March 2008, 06:48 PM

thanks gain - i have fooled with eq, and cutting high end off guitar helps the balance but screws up the guitar sound. i am using just some small hall verb, but even when i put no verb at all on the flute, it still sound like it is behind the guitar. they are being tracked together, but with individual micing. tried an ORTF pair, but guitar sound was very unconvincing that way.

donsimpson · 19th March 2008, 07:52 PM

Can you mic the flute up closer? With the guitar mic'd up close, the flute might just be getting such an open sound that it can't compete.

Also, if you aren't already, you can try panning the guitar tracks pretty hard.

Jimbo · 19th March 2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnorman

if i pull the guitar mics back to 3-4 feet like the flute, the guiar sound is not satisfactory.

Is the guitar in a dead (non reverberant) area?

If you post this in the Remote forum you'll get a lot of very good responses. See if you can get this thread moved over there.

J_Carlo · 20th March 2008, 05:31 PM

Have you tried placing the flute's microphone closer?

Assuming you'are using cardioids on the guitar , could you change to wider pickup patterns or change stereo techniques to MS or Blumlein?

jnorman · 20th March 2008, 05:41 PM

thanks j - i have used lots of micing techniques on flute (my wife owns a flute studio). close micing the flute results in a jazz type sound which is inappropriate for this kind of material. yes, using cards on the guitar, but could try some omnis - i suppose that might help some, guess i can give it a go, as i am probably going to have to do some retracking of guitar parts anyway...

**Remoteness** · 20th March 2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Is the guitar in a dead (non reverberant) area?

If you post this in the Remote forum you'll get a lot of very good responses. See if you can get this thread moved over there.

Well, this thread is now in the "remote" forum...

Let us see how we do here.

loujudson · 20th March 2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnorman

thanks j - i have used lots of micing techniques on flute (my wife owns a flute studio). close micing the flute results in a jazz type sound which is inappropriate for this kind of material. yes, using cards on the guitar, but could try some omnis - i suppose that might help some, guess i can give it a go, as i am probably going to have to do some retracking of guitar parts anyway...

How is closer micing the flute inappropriate? Curious comment. I do it all the time, though mostly live, but it sounds just fine for Celtic music... Unless you have a really excellent room you want to include in the sound.

I'd bet using the same distance from the two instruments would sound the way you want it, 6 - 8 ". And - or - try two mics on the flute, one over sound holes, one closer to mouth...

Lou

dbssound1 · 20th March 2008, 06:18 PM

Have you tried Delaying the guitar to set it farther back in the mix? also, have you tried doing a stereo pair instead of micing the instruments separately?

All the best!

hrn · 20th March 2008, 06:30 PM

I would try a stereo pair in front of the musicians, let's say 3 m away and one close mic (30-100 cm) each on the instruments. If the room acoustic is good, use omnis in A-B...30 cm from each other. For the guitar, use a cardioid pointing 10 cm away from the soundhole up the neck. A cardioid for the flute as well pointing strait forward to the players hands, 50-100 cm away. With a good room and equipment the stereo pair should do it on their own...no phase issues.

This is the way I would start.
Hans

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19th March 2008, 05:58 PM	#1
jnorman Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 394	Acoustic guitar and flute - mix problem... doing some acoustic guitar and flute duos of traditional celtic tunes. i am micing the flute at around 3-4 feet out, and using a standard guitar stereo setup with mics at 12th fret and one on soundboard, about 6-8" out. when i try to mix these two sources together, the guitar, of course, sounds like it is well in front of the flute, which makes it sound like they are not playing together in the same place. if i pull the guitar mics back to 3-4 feet like the flute, the guiar sound is not satisfactory. how would you solve this problem? thanks. __________________ jnorman sunridge studios salem, oregon

19th March 2008, 06:48 PM	#3
jnorman Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 394	thanks gain - i have fooled with eq, and cutting high end off guitar helps the balance but screws up the guitar sound. i am using just some small hall verb, but even when i put no verb at all on the flute, it still sound like it is behind the guitar. they are being tracked together, but with individual micing. tried an ORTF pair, but guitar sound was very unconvincing that way. __________________ jnorman sunridge studios salem, oregon

20th March 2008, 05:41 PM	#7
jnorman Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 394	thanks j - i have used lots of micing techniques on flute (my wife owns a flute studio). close micing the flute results in a jazz type sound which is inappropriate for this kind of material. yes, using cards on the guitar, but could try some omnis - i suppose that might help some, guess i can give it a go, as i am probably going to have to do some retracking of guitar parts anyway... __________________ jnorman sunridge studios salem, oregon

20th March 2008, 06:18 PM	#10
dbssound1 Gear nut Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 94	Have you tried Delaying the guitar to set it farther back in the mix? also, have you tried doing a stereo pair instead of micing the instruments separately? All the best! __________________

19th March 2008, 06:36 PM	#2
gainstages Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Georgia Posts: 572	try dipping the guitar a bit around 5k, if that doesn' tdo it, sweep around a bit in the high mids and see if you can find that spot. are you using any reverb? if so, try to adjust the pre-delay on both to adjust the relative image front to back have you tried just tracking them together to begin with?

19th March 2008, 07:52 PM	#4
donsimpson Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 157	Can you mic the flute up closer? With the guitar mic'd up close, the flute might just be getting such an open sound that it can't compete. Also, if you aren't already, you can try panning the guitar tracks pretty hard.

20th March 2008, 05:31 PM	#6
J_Carlo Gear interested Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 18	Have you tried placing the flute's microphone closer? Assuming you'are using cardioids on the guitar , could you change to wider pickup patterns or change stereo techniques to MS or Blumlein?

20th March 2008, 06:30 PM	#11
hrn Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Gävle, Sweden Posts: 566	I would try a stereo pair in front of the musicians, let's say 3 m away and one close mic (30-100 cm) each on the instruments. If the room acoustic is good, use omnis in A-B...30 cm from each other. For the guitar, use a cardioid pointing 10 cm away from the soundhole up the neck. A cardioid for the flute as well pointing strait forward to the players hands, 50-100 cm away. With a good room and equipment the stereo pair should do it on their own...no phase issues. This is the way I would start. Hans __________________ R1b M343 Cro-Magnon U5a Sami

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