Portable field recorders

[Shadow_7]

I've been using my laptop + M-Audio Mobile Pre + Mic(s) for location recording. Which is fine as long as it's indoors and I have a power tether. We're starting to move outside for events and I'm gonna need something a little less tethered. But mainly longer battery life is the reason I wont be able to use my laptop rig outdoors. Not that I'd be able to read the LCD in direct sunlight anyway.

So I'm looking for a portable device. Hopefully something that can go for longer than four hours per set of batteries. Based on input from various forums I've identified the following three candidates.

Zoom H4
Fostex FR2LE
Marantz PDM 671

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h4/

http://fostexusa.com/index.php?file=products/pfr/fr2le

http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.a...8&SubCatID=169

The Zoom is nice, but limited to 4 hours of battery life. I tend to be part of the outdoor rehearsals that last six or more hours. So replacing batteries every other break doesn't appeal much to me.

The Fostex is nicer, and allows up to 8 hours of battery life. But also seems to be limited to 8GB of flash. Sufficient for my current needs. And rumored to have excellent preamps.

I just came across the Marantz today. 4 to 6 hours of battery life.

Are there any other options I should be considering? My planned input source mics are a pair of phantom powered Avenson STO-2's. And eventually some sE Titans or Pearl TLC90s or an Avant CK-40.

Anyone know how any these devices hold up to 100F+ temps and direct sunlight? I plan on setting it up and forgetting it for all intents and purposes. As I'll be participating in the thing being recorded. Not that I don't plan on taking protective precautions. But I do forsee a potential where there may be no protection option depending on location. And I live in Texas so it can get pretty darn hot.

[synthoid]

I have a Sony PCM-D1 and I can't say enough good things about it. For physical toughness I don't see how it can be beat. The best battery life comes by running it on Alkalines (rather than rechargables), and minimizing the monitoring you do on it. I think you can get about 8 hours out of it in that mode.

If you really wanted to go bananas with battery life, you could get a 6V lantern battery (or a couple in parallel) and feed them into the charger input of the unit. This would work, with the appropriate voltage, for any of these recorders. You could probably get almost a whole day of operation out of the thing in that way.

I used to own the predecessor of the Marantz unit you are looking at (the 670). It was not in the same class as the Sony unit, neither in terms of physical construction nor in terms of sound.

I'm not sure the Sony is the right choice if you're not going to use its built-in mics however. They really make the unit, and they are no doubt a big fraction of its price. It doesn't have XLR inputs or phantom power.

-synthoid

[Shadow_7]

Actually when I first found the marantz I looked at the newer 620. Which has most of the features. Except no XLR and no phantom power. Which I need for the type of mics I'll be using. But 12 hours of battery life and limited only by SD capacity. Supposedly capable of going all the way up to 2TB of space. Which might make it one heck of an ipod.

So far the fostex with an 8GB cf card seems like the way to go.

[ambo]

The main concern with most of the small stereo field recorders is crappy preamps and/or no phantom, or unreliable phantom. I'm using an edirol R09 with a Sound Devices MP2 preamp and it's very nice. However there are very few battery powered preamps available. Sound Devices, Aerco and a few others that people use extra battery packs for. Go to taperssection.com for lots of info about field recorders,preamps and modifications. Or just bite the bullet and buy a Sound Devices 722 and be done with it. (All roads seem to lead here or to the new Korg 1bit units).

[John Willett]

From your list, I would go with the FR-2LE - it's the cheapest recorder I would call "pro".

The Sony PCM-D50 looks good for a hand-held recorder, though.

[Shadow_7]

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...3/pcmd50.shtml

Sony PCM D50 is pretty much the same as a marantz 620. No XLR or phantom power.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...Model?id=82662

The Sony PCM-D1 is nice, but pricey. For $2K I'd expect at least an XLR option, which I can't seem to find in it's specs.

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/722.htm

Sound Devices 722 at $2,500-ish is a bit out of the question. I'm not really looking for "that" pro at the moment. But it'd be nice to have for sure. Something around $500 is fine for now, plus or minus $200, as long as it's good.

http://www.korg.com/service/press_txt.asp?PRID=206
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?A_...&category_id=3

The Korg 1-bit MR-1000 is a bit more affordable. But still bloody expensive. I'm looking for something like a zoom H4, the Fostex for a few hundred more is very attractive. Actually if I could get a battery pack to power my laptop for more than one hour and up to eight, I would probably use it. It just seems a bit more convenient to get a field recorder.

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

The Sony PCM-D1 is nice, but pricey. For $2K I'd expect at least an XLR option, which I can't seem to find in it's specs.

Indeed, and some clue about stereo mic theory. The mics on the D1 are arranged so that the time of arrival cues are opposite to the intensity cues.

[JEGG]

HD-P2 is highly recommended! Using 2500 mAh AA's you can get about 1.5 hours with phantom on, headphones on, and display lit. There are commonly available AA's with higher specs.

Battery life is only one element. All of this gear has (very) different features, and different ergonomic strengths and weaknesses-the same with the mechanical design. And all this aside from the sound of the thing.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by JEGG

HD-P2 is highly recommended! Using 2500 mAh AA's you can get about 1.5 hours with phantom on, headphones on, and display lit. There are commonly available AA's with higher specs.

I agree that the HD-P2 is a nice machine - but the next price break up from the FR-2LE and the like.

Personally I have the original FR-2 at the moment (which I prefer to the HD-P2). I get about 2 hours with 2700mAh AAs and they say double this using the external Tamiya rechargeable (which I now have, but not yet tested to the max).

I have two Tamiya batteries fully charged and once the first is flat it can be charged in the car or on the mains while using the second one - by the tine the second is flat, the first will be charged up again.

This option is also available for the FR-2LE.

The HD-P2 and original FR-2 is the half way point between the FR-2LE, PCM-D50, etc. and the cheapest of the Sound Devices units.

[Shadow_7]

http://www.tascam.com/products/hd-p2.html

Another nice one. 5.5 hours of battery life. XLR + Phantom Power. And can go up to 192kHz. But several hundred more than a Fostex FR2LE. I don't really need syncing or 192kHz (yet).

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by John Willett

I agree that the HD-P2 is a nice machine - but the next price break up from the FR-2LE and the like.

The HD-P2 and the Fostex FR 2 LE, are very different pieces of gear, with very different hardware and features. As is the HD-P2 and the Fostex FR 2. So much so that I don't see that price is a determining issue. The additional $200 or so over the LE buys a great deal of versatility, and the price of the FR 2 is and was ridiculous, and that's not accounting for it being released before many operational problems were addressed. And remember, you still had to pay $60 for the optional and proprietary AC adapter, and how much for time code?!

But that depends on what the user needs, I and suspect everyone would have to decide that on their own.

I can't compare of the sound, because I haven't used the Fostex gear. But I've been pleased with the Tascam, and especially the mic preamps.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by JEGG

.....the price of the FR 2 is and was ridiculous, and that's not accounting for it being released before many operational problems were addressed. And remember, you still had to pay $60 for the optional and proprietary AC adapter, and how much for time code?!

I really don't agree with this at all.

Take it in context.

The FR-2 was the very first portable 24/96 capable machine on the market and was considerably cheaper than anything else on the market when it was launched.

I had one of the very first machines and wrote a comprehensive review of it that was published in both the UK and Australia. I certainly did not find any operational problems at all.

I found a small bug which I reported to Fostex and was fixed immediately by a software upgrade before the review was printed (both the bug and fix reported in the review).

The only real thing I didn't like was the short battery life (2 hours) - but this is now fixed by using Tamiya batteries.

The HD-P2 came out a year later - but, personally, I still prefer the FR-2.

It is very unfair to compare the first on the market with those that came later and criticise it - later machines take advantage of user comments and technological improvements and can come in cheaper.

The FR-2 is now lower in price - but I *still* like it and it has mastered many CDs for me over the last ferw years.

Only now am I upgrading (probably to the Nagra VI) and the FR-2 will become a back-up machine - but it's still good and good value for money.

[wax808]

I use a little Fostex MR-8. It works great for what I use it for.


The batteries do go down much more quickly when using Phantom power however.

[Shadow_7]

http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/...s_nagra_vi.php

All I "need/want" for the moment is 24/96 stereo recording. 2x XLR with Phantom power. 4-12 hours of battery life and recording time with phantom power on. It almost looks like that if I wait another two years I could have all that and more for $500.

My current Mobile pre at 16/48 is sufficient if battery life wasn't an issue. I'm mainly interested in the Fostex FR2LE because it's more portable and rumored to have much better preamps. So instead of making a second trip for the laptop plus interface, I could make the whole monty part of the mic stand. One trip instead of two for my instrument plus recording gear.

Actually the Zoom H4 might also suit my needs if it had better battery life. Or if I could get or make some sort of super battery rig to double or tripple a devices battery life. As long as the storage capacity of the device wasn't also an issue.

http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/...s_ares_bb+.php

Seems to be a europe type thing. 15 hours of 20/48. With two XLR plus phantom power. Probably not worth the almost $4K-ish USD equivalent of the euros price.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by studio1117

why not the KORG MR1000

It does have everything I need. But the so does the Fostex Fr2Le at 1/2 the price. The MR-1000 is probably the better machine, but I'm not gonna use most of the better parts, except maybe the extra extra battery life. And that's just not worth an extra $600 to me.

MR-1000 - $1,199 - 8 AA's - 24/192kHz - 40GB HDD.
FR2LE - $599 - 4 AA's - 24/96kHz - 8GB CF Card.

I've heard lots of praises on the Fostex. And virtually nothing on the Mr-1000 outside of this thread. Granted that the fostex battery life isn't quite as long as I'd like. Given that the 8 hour spec is based on special batteries. And I'll be using phantom power. And the larger CF card is NOT included, or the batteries. So probably closer to $750 or $850 final costs. But still several hundred cheaper.

I guess I just need to settle on how much it's worth for me to be portable. Since all I'm currently doing is recording rehearsals.

$400 - Zoom H4
$800 - Fostex FR2LE
$1,200 - Korg MR-1000
(probably over simplified)

[Schaap]

Some comparision Here. There are some Korg MR-1000's offered in the classified section. I really love the Korg!

Henk

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by Schaap

Some comparision Here.

Thanks for the link. It talks about MR-1000 recordings, but I couldn't locate any. A couple MR-1 recordings, which sound better than the H4 ones, but no MR-1000 recordings. The flash player on dialup is less than cool. But I've devised a way of extracting .mp3 urls from the browsers cache. So usable to a limited extent.

The MR-1000 is nice. I wouldn't mind having one. With 8 batteries instead of the 4 of the Fostex, I'm sure it meets my needs. But for $1,200 I could buy a generator, gas, and a long electrical cable and accomplish the same end result with cash to spare. I could probably rig up some sort of car battery AC/DC alternative for even less. Not really an easy sell at that price point.

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by John Willett

I really don't agree with this at all.

Take it in context.

The FR-2 was the very first portable 24/96 capable machine on the market and was considerably cheaper than anything else on the market when it was launched.
the bug and fix reported in the review).

The only real thing I didn't like was the short battery life (2 hours) - but this is now fixed by using Tamiya batteries.

John-I think you're the one who's taking things out of context. The person wants to buy something now! Not a year or two or three ago.

And speaking of context: The FR2 was supposed to be a field recorder. Yet it had totally unacceptable battery life from the get go-AND-Fostex made you buy a ridiculously expensive add on power adapter. Being tethered to an expensive optional mains adapter sort of defeats the whole "field recorder concept."

How can a product (Tascam) launched one year later have quadruple battery life, a FireWire interface rather than USB 1.1, comes WITH an AC power supply-the FR2's was an expensive option, the Tascam comes WITH time code, the FR2 was a very expensive addition, the list goes on. That's not to mention the FR2 preamps, which was the first thing Fostex seemed to think needed upgrading!

The Tascam was and is less than half of the cost of the Fostex-once the Fostex has all the expensive add ons-and then the Fostex still doesn't even come close to the HD-P2 in function. USB 1.1?! When was the last computer or other piece of gear made that came with that? And the FR2 had no real battery life to begin with. Tascam was 5-6 from the outset.

The Fostex was already an underperforming, under featured, and over priced piece of gear from the moment it was launched!

The FR2-LE comes with no features whatsoever. The FR2 is very expensive, has no battery life, requires an expensive proprietary AC converter, everyone I know who's had one has sold it because of it's unreliabilibty, it's a USB 1.1 ! (Tascam is firewire), the FR2 needs expensive time code option.

Does the FR2LE even have digi ins and outs?

The Tascam is about $200 more than the FR-2LE. It's a piece of gear that is simply in a different class than the LE. From sophisticated power management and monitoring to the information available in the display, to Fire Wire and digi ins and outs, to hardware flexibility and setup, to monitoring options, the HD-P2 presents a very good value.

Read the Manuals!:

Read the manuals (online) for the FR2-LE, the FR-2, and the HD-P2. Check prices. Which gear do you think offers the best combination of price, features, and then go use an HD-P2 and listen to what you've recorded.

I would agree that if what is wanted is the lowest price basic sort of gear, I would look at the FR2-LE. But if the best value for cost is wanted, the HD-P2 smokes the Fostex gear.

The FR2 represents possibly the worst value of any flash based recording device ever, and that includes all the "low-fi" gear from Zoom, Edirol, and M-Audio.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by JEGG

John-I think you're the one who's taking things out of context. The person wants to buy something now! Not a year or two or three ago.

And speaking of context: The FR2 was supposed to be a field recorder. Yet it had totally unacceptable battery life from the get go-AND-Fostex made you buy a ridiculously expensive add on power adapter. Being tethered to an expensive optional mains adapter sort of defeats the whole "field recorder concept."

How can a product (Tascam) launched one year later have quadruple battery life, a FireWire interface rather than USB 1.1, comes WITH an AC power supply-the FR2's was an expensive option, the Tascam comes WITH time code, the FR2 was a very expensive addition, the list goes on. That's not to mention the FR2 preamps, which was the first thing Fostex seemed to think needed upgrading!

The Tascam was and is less than half of the cost of the Fostex-once the Fostex has all the expensive add ons-and then the Fostex still doesn't even come close to the HD-P2 in function. USB 1.1?! When was the last computer or other piece of gear made that came with that? And the FR2 had no real battery life to begin with. Tascam was 5-6 from the outset.

The Fostex was already an underperforming, under featured, and over priced piece of gear from the moment it was launched!

The FR2-LE comes with no features whatsoever. The FR2 is very expensive, has no battery life, requires an expensive proprietary AC converter, everyone I know who's had one has sold it because of it's unreliabilibty, it's a USB 1.1 ! (Tascam is firewire), the FR2 needs expensive time code option.

Does the FR2LE even have digi ins and outs?

The Tascam is about $200 more than the FR-2LE. It's a piece of gear that is simply in a different class than the LE. From sophisticated power management and monitoring to the information available in the display, to Fire Wire and digi ins and outs, to hardware flexibility and setup, to monitoring options, the HD-P2 presents a very good value.

Read the Manuals!:

Read the manuals (online) for the FR2-LE, the FR-2, and the HD-P2. Check prices. Which gear do you think offers the best combination of price, features, and then go use an HD-P2 and listen to what you've recorded.

I would agree that if what is wanted is the lowest price basic sort of gear, I would look at the FR2-LE. But if the best value for cost is wanted, the HD-P2 smokes the Fostex gear.

The FR2 represents possibly the worst value of any flash based recording device ever, and that includes all the "low-fi" gear from Zoom, Edirol, and M-Audio.

Have you used an FR2?

Of the cheaper recorders, it is one one most often used by professional recordists-
As to battery life, non of these machines last very long with phantom power running- NO1 battery rigs are easy to put together for them. (I built an NP1 adaptor for less than $20 for the FR2...)

There is also nothing wrong with its mic preamps... And built in mics NEVER compare quality wise to even cheap wired microphones...


The Sound Devices recorders are the professional standard nowadays.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by JEGG

USB 1.1?! When was the last computer or other piece of gear made that came with that?

Actually any computer with usb 2.0 has usb 1.1. Since the only real difference is the bus speed. I setup a couple hand me down computers for the nephews last Christmas. A couple P III 500MHz boxes with USB 1.1. I was actually kind of surprised at how well and fast the usb wireless devices worked on those old usb 1.1 ports. And it was only ten years ago that USB 1.1 was new hot to trot stuff.

Anyway, I am now semi-sold on the MR-1000. If I could just get past the price tag. Or find a good used one at half the retail price.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by JEGG

The Fostex (FR-2)was already an underperforming, under featured, and over priced piece of gear from the moment it was launched!

This is absolute rubbish.

The FR-2 has been a reliable machine of excellent quality.

Yes, time-code made it expensive compared to the HD-P2.

But I found the battery life to be its only shortcoming - which has now been cured with the new low-cost Tamiya batteries.

Certainly the equal of the HD-P2 and better than all the cheaper options.

But obviously the HD-P2 gives you what you want - fine - no problem.

[Pindebraende]

Originally Posted by John Willett

But I found the battery life to be its only shortcoming - which has now been cured with the new low-cost Tamiya batteries.

Hi all
Sorry for a bit of highjacking.

Im trying to get my FR2 to run for more then 1 hour.
Can some of you please explain to me, how the Tamiya battery thing works with the FR2?
Is it a factory made package that will plugin and be ready, or will I have to solder etc.?

Thanks:-)

Mikkel

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Pindebraende

Hi all
Sorry for a bit of highjacking.

Im trying to get my FR2 to run for more then 1 hour.
Can some of you please explain to me, how the Tamiya battery thing works with the FR2?
Is it a factory made package that will plugin and be ready, or will I have to solder etc.?

Thanks:-)

Mikkel

I get two hours with 2300mAh NiMh AA rechargeables - the Tamiya should double this. It is external and plugs into the DC socket via an adaptor - you have to set the battery in the menu.

I have two Tamiya batteries and a fast charger - the charger will charge the first battery while you are using the second and be ready again by the time the second is finished. The charger will work from the mains or the car.

[clownjuggles]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

I've heard lots of praises on the Fostex. And virtually nothing on the Mr-1000 outside of this thread.

You need to use the search function or google. The MR-1000 is one of the best reviewed units out there. I wouldn't be surprised if you cant find a Korg for 950 or 1000 easy.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by clownjuggles

You need to use the search function or google. The MR-1000 is one of the best reviewed units out there. I wouldn't be surprised if you cant find a Korg for 950 or 1000 easy.

The main problem with the MR-1000 is that it's a 1-bit recorder.

After reading up on it I don't think 1-bit is a very good idea and, personally, will stick with 224/96.

Hugh Robjohns has written about this on the Sound On Sound forum which is very interesting.

[videoteque]

The Korg can record 1-bit, but also PCM. From their site:

Recording Formats:
1-bit audio formats - DSDIFF, DSF, WSD: 2.8224 MHz @ 1-bit, 5.6448 MHz @ 1-bit

PCM audio formats - WAV, BWF: 44.1 kHz @ 16/24-bit, 48 kHz @ 16/24-bit, 88.2 kHz @ 24-bit, 96 kHz @ 24-bit, 176.4 kHz @ 24-bit, 192 kHz @ 24-bit

MP3 format - playback only
44.1kHz or 48kHz/32kbps-320kbps


I can't understand why the Korg gets so much love/hate. It's just a tool, it works well, in the good hands it can make beaautiful recordings, in the wrong hands...

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The main problem with the MR-1000 is that it's a 1-bit recorder.

After reading up on it I don't think 1-bit is a very good idea and, personally, will stick with 224/96.

Hugh Robjohns has written about this on the Sound On Sound forum which is very interesting.

John,

I'm curious why you don't think 1-bit recording is a good idea? Also, as pointed out the Korg will record at PCM sample rates (and the converters still sound quite good, I think). So it's not exclusively a DSD box...

[Westmalle]

I will test my MR-1000 this evening for the first time