to anyone with experience in live sound

[blakesmith]

the system i will be using on my next gig is in desperate need of limiters! my question is, where in the signal path do they need to go. current set up is main outs of mixer, into dual 31 band eq, into the snake, out of snake to the crossover, then amps and speakers.

where do the limiters need to be? before the amps? before the crossover? before the eq?

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by blakesmith

the system i will be using on my next gig is in desperate need of limiters! my question is, where in the signal path do they need to go. current set up is main outs of mixer, into dual 31 band eq, into the snake, out of snake to the crossover, then amps and speakers.

where do the limiters need to be? before the amps? before the crossover? before the eq?

Before or after the EQ is good, just a preference. Oddly i have used them between the cross over and the line going to the power subs to tighten the bass w/o effecting the mid highs.

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by blakesmith

the system i will be using on my next gig is in desperate need of limiters! my question is, where in the signal path do they need to go. current set up is main outs of mixer, into dual 31 band eq, into the snake, out of snake to the crossover, then amps and speakers.

where do the limiters need to be? before the amps? before the crossover? before the eq?

Why would a system be in desperate need...please explain...if you are going to use them, I agree with the other guy leaning towards before eq.

[Jacob H]

Hey, well first of all my opinion is to always put the limiters pre-eq. Get your limiting set, than eq your signal.

I personally dont like eq'ing my signal than squashing all the work I just did. So if you get your limiter set prior, than you can draw out what you want, otherwise you will eq your signal and end up potentially having to re-do your eqs once the limiter takes off (if you will) the top of some of the boosts you had made to if you follow.


But definitely with the same question as above... What are you doing the your so in need of limiters. I run a fair amount of shows and hit my compressors a fair amount but rarely chose to get to my limiters in a hurry.

[tINY]

BSS used to put limiters in-between poles inside the cross-over....

But, since you have the cross-overs and amps safely out of arms reach, why not just lower the input gain up there so you can't over-drive the amp rack?



-tINY

[username]

The most common use of limiters over the main buss in live sound is for system protection.. the best way to set them up for this is to have the just before the amplifiers in the signal chain.

you don't want them after the eq, as other wise gain could be added at the eq stage, and you system protection is now useless

if you're using them in more of a mix role, then you put them where ever sounds best

[tchristen]

Watch your limiting still, just because you can use limiting you are not 100 percent safe..you can still be sending a square wave to the speakers and thats even worse.

I would agree with before the EQ as well in the signal path.

-Ted

[blakesmith]

this pa gets a lot of use from hardcore/screamo/thrash bands. its not the best system in the world. i thought that this system could use limiters for safety reasons. im pretty sure it has seen abuse in the past. if anyone is interested i can post all the gear that the pa consist of. thanks for the advice

[jamsmith]

Use the limiters where they are needed. If you EQs don't have much headroom, then put them in front. However, for PA, limiters are generally there to protect the system. Put them last before the amps. However, keep on thing in mind, speakers are rarely damaged by to much power, they damaged by not enough. Driving the power amps into distortion is what burns out the voice coils.

[Jacob H]

If your looking to protect your system its different than limiting individual channel for mixing purposes. Often your power amps will have a built in limiter, check to see if they do and if its enabled (often just a small button hidden away on the back) these limiters are built in for just that reason, they basically just tell the system to konk out if it gets way to hot.

Check it out, if not throw the limiters right after the before the amps so that the signal just gets crushed if it goes to high and just mix conservatively. Start low and just push the mains around show time...

(If your using for mix purposes, as I said prior to eq is the only thing that makes sense to me.)

[ahjteam]

Originally Posted by blakesmith

the system i will be using on my next gig is in desperate need of limiters! my question is, where in the signal path do they need to go.

From dbx 166XL compressor/limiter manual: ftp://ftp.dbxpro.com/pub/PDFs/Manual...XLManualA2.pdf

Speaker Protection (Auditoriums, Churches, Mobile DJs and Sound Systems)
...
As a general rule, compressors should be as close to the amplifiers as possible in the signal chain. If the 166XL is placed before the EQ (equalizer), for example, a potentially damaging boost in the EQ won’t be seen by the 166XL and the speakers may be damaged.

[aussie_techie]

limiters should be between the crossover and the amps and you should not to be hitting them all the time. a Drive rack or similar is an easy solution to have everything in a single box and then you can lock it so no one can change your settings.

beyond that its pretty important to have compression on the screamer(s) (start with a high threshold and ration at 4-5:1) and medium compression over the entire system (post EQ)

[blakesmith]

awesome guys! thanks for your input