schoeps + dav pre + fireface: fireface too weak for this chain?

[fafalio]

hello friends.
i want to buy two schoeps to put in my D.A.V. pre and starting study stereo mic for classical music.
i have now ugly converters.
now i have no money to buy a prism orpheus.
i want to put at maximum 1200 euros for the audiocard.
i m thinking to a RME fireface.
for you i can with it obtain professional recordings or is it too much inferior for schoeps and dav?
best regards.
Alessandro.

[CKK]

You should be able to make nice sounding recordings with the FireFace 800.

If not, then check the mirror for the faulty part.

[ghellquist]

The AD converters in the Fireface are in my mind definitely good enough for demanding classical recordings. Much better than most mic placements.

Gunnar

[d_fu]

You are worrying too much. The influence of the AD conversion on the quality of your recordings is far smaller than you think. Do you know any recording where you think it would have been better if only they had used better converters? I don't know exactly what's inside the Orpheus (I guess I could find out), but I'm sure it uses some kind of industry standard converter like AKM or Crystal. Which is what most other interfaces around this price range also have...

Here's what I would think matters most for quality, from most important to almost irrelevant.

• The Music and the musicians
• The Hall's acoustics
• Microphone placement
• Choice and quality of microphones (from a certain standard upwards, not talking about cheap chinese imitation microphones...)
• Preamp quality
• AD conversion quality
• Bit depth
• Sample rate (upwards of 44.1)

I've left out the cables etc.
Without changing the rest of the factors, I think it will be very hard to get significantly better recordings just because you choose a different AD converter...
Better to save a bit of money and invest it in good microphones.

[David Spearritt]

Daniel has it correct. In fact the navel gazing that goes on in this forum and others about A/D conversion, sampling rates, and DAW sound is a complete joke. I am amazed that it goes on for so long.

[fifthcircle]

David and Daniel-

Thank you for saying exactly what I tend to rant on this (and other) forums about... Not to say that a converter doesn't matter, but in the scheme of things, it is a rather insignificant issue compared to the big ones of room, placement, mics, pres...

I've gotten a lot of compliments on a number of recordings I've done that used decidedly low-end rigs. That includes preamps as well as converters. Heck, a jazz album I did on a Digi001 was reviewed as being a big "audiophile" release. If they only knew what was used....

--Ben

[Remoteness]

Well said folks!

I cannot stress it enough.
Our ears, eyes and hands are the most important tools we have in the process of capturing great sound.

[fafalio]

ok. i will go with a fireface 800.
now i know the most important thing is to have in my hand schoeps.
thanks you very much to all.
Alessandro.

[Testing123]

Originally Posted by ghellquist

The AD converters in the Fireface are in my mind definitely good enough for demanding classical recordings. Much better than most mic placements.

This statement made me laugh - that last sentence says more than a lot of entire books do!

[sonare]

You have superb mics and micamps-- I do not know what the Fireface costs, but I can assure you that the ADC in the Metric Halo 2882/ULN-8 are VERY good. The 2882 (which can do 8 channels) is about $1k, but you must have a Mac.

For a long time I used a BG8 and 2882 for small jobs-- simply terrific!

Rich

[mortenbrekke]

Most recordings in the 80s and 90s probably used inferior converters by todays standards, but some of them still sound great! So it should be possible to make great recordings even without apogee or Mytek..

[luigichelli]

Rosetta VS Fireface in an A/B test.


check it out, it was criticized but still nice to read for a FF owner :P

[0VU]

Originally Posted by mortenbrekke

Most recordings in the 80s and 90s probably used inferior converters by todays standards, but some of them still sound great! So it should be possible to make great recordings even without apogee or Mytek..

Indeed some people would say it was actually easier to make great recordings without Apogee!

Otherwise, I agree. I regularly use dCS900 converters made in 1992/3 and they're still amongst the best sounding converters around. But whatever, as has already been said, choice of converter converters is so much less relevant than many/most other bits of the signal chain and recording process that it really doesn't matter that much. Unless something is broken or everything else is as good as it can be and you really are chasing the last few percent of sound quality.

[Tom Hakala]

I think you we'll more than satisfied with FF+DAV.

Just like Remoteness said: " Our ears, eyes and hands are the most important tools we have in the process of capturing great sound." I wholeheartedly agree.

I'm not sure will this help you... I found this a while ago.. florian fernbacher - discography

equipment used:
converter: RME Fireface 400, microphones: Elation km201(as Neumann km84)
Preamp: Dav Bg1 , recorded 96 khz

The recording was done in the "Marstall" of "Hanns Eisler".
The cello player was sitting one meter before the piano player
the microphones where positioned in ORTF, two meters in front the cello player.

[fafalio]

thanks you very much to all.
very important to me the files sent by TOM.
i don t know the mic used.

[XLR]

I found this a while ago.. florian fernbacher - discography

[fafalio]

perhaps it is for the compression of the file,
but to my ears the cello sounds innatural and metalic.
somebody infact says the rme converters are metalic!
for you it is due to the cheap mics,the fireface or simply an error in mic position?
surely i think the reason is not DAV, that is fantastic and very natural!
Alessandro.

[ISedlacek]

I would say, for sure you can make nice recordings with RME (Digi 001, Motu etc.) but with high quality converters (Lavry, Prism etc.) it will simply sound better (under the same circumstances). That´s all. And the sound difference between mediocre and high end converters is not that small at all. Better ones will bring more depth, detail , 3D and more natural sound in the recording. I would not say that the role of a converter is much less important that for example of a preamp. You can have a great microphone and preamp, but with a low-end converter you may lose part of the benefits given by them (they simply will not be translated well into the digital domain).
As it is said - the chain is as strong as its weakest part. For sure - if you record something with Digi 001 or RME and than just the change the converters for Lavry, DCs etc., your recording will get another dimension ...

For me it is enough (and easy) to change DA between Lavry and Lynx (which is considered to very good one), immediately everything loses depth, detail and clarity. Similarly with AD. I used to have Apogee Rosetta. The sound difference between recording with it and with Lavry AD is like night and day.

So, Alessandro, don´t worry abour RME, for sure you can do nicely with it, but if the funds allow you, get better at least Mytek instead. You may be more happy with the results ...

[fafalio]

i think what IVO say is the true thing.
you can have all the best mic and pre, but if during conversion all is not traslated i loose a lot of details.
on the other now i have to buy two schoeps to study stereophony, so i will not have money for prism o lavry.
i think i will buy a fireface 400, that it is cheaper than 800, and when i will have money i will think to something better.
on the other hand, in this price range i think RME is the only solution.
i had a motu traveler and i think the sound of it is horrible and hobbistic.
RME seem to me (i have listen only DA) more acceptable, but i think it is metallic.
i can t on the other hand find other solutions.
Alessandro.

[ISedlacek]

So you need only 2 AD channels ? Then you can look at the used stereo Mytek 96 or maybe Lavry Black AD ? (now or later)

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

So you need only 2 AD channels? Then you can look at the used stereo Mytek 96 or maybe Lavry Black AD? (now or later)

Don't forget that not only a converter is required, but also a stable and expandable audio interface (in case more mics will be added later). I think it's no use confusing Alessandro with fine details of conversion quality for now (how would a converter be "metallic", by the way?). He will learn more from working with mics and mic placement for now.

Daniel

[Tom Hakala]

IMO you should get something like the FF400 now. It has rock solid drivers. And will be good enough for now. I wouldn't pay too much attention on gear if you have decent preamps and converters, more is done with ears and hands. Mytek can be added later to the Fireface.

Just get the Fireface. You have DAV preamps. Great mics. So you should be able to do mind blowing albums sonically. From this point on it's all about your skills.

Good luck!

[ISedlacek]

Completely true: think of a steady interface now (once you have a solid setup) and some double cream (in the form of external convertor or extra preamp) can be added later if desired ...

[fafalio]

thanks to all friends!
i will go with the fireface, it is on the other hand a very good interface.
i hope only it will be rock solid with my digital performer and mac book pro.
best regards.
Alessandro.

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by fafalio

thanks to all friends!
i will go with the fireface, it is on the other hand a very good interface.
i hope only it will be rock solid with my digital performer and mac book pro.
best regards.
Alessandro.

cheapest I have found the FF400 is at Welcome to Synthplanet.com ! it's 700€ plus shipping.

[fafalio]

thanks tom,
i will change my motu traveler that i hate for the ugly sound with the rme.
ciao!

[DaveD]

Look, I'm biased because I own one and love it, but if you have a macbook, I would give the Metric Halo ULN2 another look. The conversion is very high quality and it also has great quality preamps in its own right and a good headphone amplifier.

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by DaveD

Look, I'm biased because I own one and love it, but if you have a macbook, I would give the Metric Halo ULN2 another look. The conversion is very high quality and it also has great quality preamps in its own right and a good headphone amplifier.

Agreed!