4041-S or 4041-T2?!?

[Westmalle]

Hello everyone,

I am trying to find out what would be the ultimate omnidirectional AB pair.

Recently I received a DPA cd with various microphones on it.
I found the best one to be the 4041. (not the 4006)

However, I want the 130V version.

Would the tube version have any useful colouring for strictly classical music recordings (orchestra-chamber music) ?

Or is the solid state version preferable?

any other brands that you like for an ultimate A-B?

And ... what converter is best for this? An ADA AX-24?

Nowdays I use a Soundfield Microphne with a Apogee minime converter, going to a Protools LE Mbox, I improve the sound with Wave plugins (LinMB, L2, Rbass, Shuffler)

[klaukholm]

For orchestral and chamber I would compare it to M150, tlm50 and schoeps mk2APE40

[Baithak]

Has anybody used these extensively to have an opinion
one way or the other w.r.t. the DPA/Schoeps/Neumans
listed here? Are they even in the same league?


Baithak

[klaukholm]

The biggest difference is the APE on the neumanns and the shoeps as compared to the 4041.
It is a remarkably powerful tool for imaging and for controlling the amount of high frequency content/prescence.

For AD converters it is the usual high end candidates:
Prism
Lavry
DAD
Meitner
Mytek
dCS

[Legacy]

Hi Westmalle (Hey Kjetil),

Just to clarify - I'm pretty sure that the APE adaptors that alter the polar response of the DPAs are only available for the regular capsule-size mics (4003, 4006 etc). The 4041s are large diaphragm.

I have only used the 4041s once and briefly so I can't comment on the sound between SS and tube. Bruce Myers at DPA who recorded that demo CD told me that the 4041s are very sensitive to angle (which I think is good - more tonal control) - more so than even the 4003s which I find sensitive to this as well.

Purely speculating, I'd probably start with the SS body as it is aimed at being 'totally transparent'. You can purchase the tube bodies and easily interchange the capsules to taste as sessions require.

I'm a big fan of the +130 volt 4003 and offer that they're worth keeping on your short list. You could use the APE adaptors to get a variety of responses including a tonal emulation of the M50 sound. There is a nice recording made by Richard King at Mechanics Hall with just a pair of 4003s into Mastering Lab tube pres (which can do +130) direct to DSD - Mark O-Connor, Yo-Yo Ma, Edgar Meyer's Appalachian Journey. I think its a nice example of DPA detail hitting tubes.

As for A-Ds, klaukholm gave you a great list. Get some nice mics you know well and find a way to audition the A-Ds but I'd say you can't go wrong with anything from that list.

Best,
Silas

[Jim vanBergen]

You've received great input and suggestions so far.

Just to add my $0.02-

One of the classical recordings I am most proud of was done with 4041-S mics for orchestra. I was astounded at the clarity and depth of the LDC on that recording compared to my "preferred" SDCs, but of course, many factors are involved in a recording. However, if you are serious about getting several, why not contact DPA for a demo of both when you are ready to buy, to make your decision?

if you don't do an A/B, I personally would go solid state for classical.

I think this is a phenomenal microphone, and the LDS reduces some of the 'sterility' I normally find with my 4007 recordings- much closer to a Schoeps or Neumann M50 kind of sound.

[klaukholm]

Hi silas, I can see how my sentence could be misinterpreted.
I was suggesting contrasting the various APE based designs with the 4041 which, as you mentioned is not an APE design.

[Legacy]

Hi Kjetil,

Nope. You were clear - it was my misread

I hope to try some really nice M50s some day...

The 4041s with both bodies are high on my list also.

-Silas

[klaukholm]

Silas,
are there any plans of a cardioid or figure 8 capsule for these?

[Westmalle]

I just learned that the 3532 S kit cost 8900 euro.

Is there a way of getting similar low noise and high SPL handlingand a similar sound with less money?

I didn't like the 4006, or the other microphones in the DPA-"miking a grand CD".

I recorded some CD's with a Soundfield microphone, whih gives good stereo image,
I want to recreate this, but with a better S/N ratio.

[tenor39]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Silas,
are there any plans of a cardioid or figure 8 capsule for these?

There is a cardioid capsule for the 4041 already done, but the Danes are notorious for not releasing things. There's also a ruler-flat response omni capsule for it, much like the 4006 capsule. DPA is rumored to have a dipole mic, but I've never seen it. BTW, for those that get a copy of the DPA mic shootout CD, myself and another engineer had a large part in the recording of it in Ganz Hall at Roosevelt University in Chicago. I say that because we got no credit on the CD for doing it...

[boojum]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

For orchestral and chamber I would compare it to M150, tlm50 and schoeps mk2APE40

Kjetil - I am lost with the mk2APE40 you cite. Are you using a 20mm diameter Schoeps cap with a DPA APE? Isn't there a discrepincy in diameters?

TIA

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Silas,
are there any plans of a cardioid or figure 8 capsule for these?

I've heard rumor of some interest there but I don't know of anything (Mike obviously knows more).

I'd like it also if they made it work. Seems the next logical step.

Best,
Silas

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by Westmalle

I just learned that the 3532 S kit cost 8900 euro.

Is there a way of getting similar low noise and high SPL handlingand a similar sound with less money?

I didn't like the 4006, or the other microphones in the DPA-"miking a grand CD".

I recorded some CD's with a Soundfield microphone, whih gives good stereo image,
I want to recreate this, but with a better S/N ratio.

Hi Westmalle,

I don't know prices for EU but that sounds high (is that with VAT?)...If you bought just a pair and not the kit it would be considerably less. In the US it works out to be about 2/3 or 3/4 the cost to get just a pair rather than the kit for that model (other models are different).

I still recommend the 4003 version or the 4006TL with your choice of preamp (not the original 4006).
The 3503 kit (2x4003) should be considerably less than the 3532S kit

Best,
Silas

[sonare]

I will toss in my opinion as I own 4003/6 and have used the 4041, and find it to be quite bright, but with the ability to aim/tune it as has been mentioned. You should DEFINITELY try it before buying IMO.

Someone at DPA told me that for a time there were no tube 4041 due to DPA's very stringent QC ont the tubes-- guess that got solved.

Rich

[Westmalle]

Originally Posted by Legacy

Hi Westmalle,

I don't know prices for EU but that sounds high (is that with VAT?)...If you bought just a pair and not the kit it would be considerably less. In the US it works out to be about 2/3 or 3/4 the cost to get just a pair rather than the kit for that model (other models are different).

I still recommend the 4003 version or the 4006TL with your choice of preamp (not the original 4006).
The 3503 kit (2x4003) should be considerably less than the 3532S kit

Best,
Silas

Well I listened to the recordings of DPA "miking a grand piano".
the 48 V 4041 sounded way better in my opinion then the 48 V 4006.
I will not buy the 4003.

I want something like the 130 V 4041-S from another company, that is cheaper, but equal.
If that's not possible, than I'll buy nothing.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by boojum

Kjetil - I am lost with the mk2APE40 you cite. Are you using a 20mm diameter Schoeps cap with a DPA APE? Isn't there a discrepincy in diameters?

TIA

I cited the MK2H not the mk2.

APE is an Acoustic Pressure Equalizer.
Schoeps calls theirs KA40 (the other sizes are out of production)
The Neumann M150 and TLM50 have the capsule permanently built on a sphere (APE)
Neumann km series also has an APE, but the model name escapes me.

[sonare]

Originally Posted by Westmalle

I want something like the 130 V 4041-S from another company, that is cheaper, but equal.
If that's not possible, than I'll buy nothing.

Don't plan on buying anything, then. You ALWAYS get what you pay for in microphones! This is especially true with DPA where you are not merely getting sonic quality but build quality that doesn't change for many years.

Rich

[videoteque]

Instant 1600€ rebate!!! Only for the solid state version. The tube version is indeed 8900€...

[Westmalle]

Originally Posted by videoteque

Instant 1600€ rebate!!! Only for the solid state version. The tube version is indeed 8900€...

1600euro? that's a huge discount.
How is that possible? Amasing!

[Westmalle]

Originally Posted by sonare

Don't plan on buying anything, then. You ALWAYS get what you pay for in microphones! This is especially true with DPA where you are not merely getting sonic quality but build quality that doesn't change for many years.

Rich

Thanks for your advice. I think I will find have to find a way to get the cash.
I will ask you one more question: can you use a stereo - ribbon as a main pair on a lot of sources? Or is it only for choir that you use it?