Eliminating Feedback?

[miercoles]

...I mean for live vocal use. I see a few things out there to do this. Can anybody suggest anything? Something under $200?

[oldgreensock]

Whats feeding back?
house or monitors?
Is it always the same band/setup?
Do you get feedback at every gig?
What is your rig?

Need the info.

[Mike Brown]

Just ring out your system correctly!

[miercoles]

I run the vocals through an Eventide - My band has a very "full" sound - Distortion, walls of keys, etc. I run the vocals, along with our whole setup, through a mixer (onyx) and send the mains out to the house. I have a hard time getting the vocals up to where I want them without them feeding back. Its usually through the monitors, even with the monitors at a reasonable leval. It just sort of sucks playing to a really low monitor mix.

I was thinking about getting a rack unit to eliminate that...

What do you think?

[surflounge]

Feedback Reduction Devices
Feedback Reduction | Sweetwater.com

[oldgreensock]

Take time to tune the PA to the room.

For free you could tell everybody to turn down on stage. This will improve your overall sound more drastically then any piece of gear you can ever dream of will. I cannot stress this point enough!!!!!!! It will work.......I mean it........PS...Make them turn down!!!!!

That usually doesn't happen though....as in...."MY amp has to be this loud for the tone" or case of super loud drummer.

For $150 you could buy an Audix OM-6 (or 5) Vocal mic that has the most gain before feedback I have ever experienced in 14 years of live sound. Be sure to sing with your lips touching the wind screen the entire performance. Great live vocal mic for really really really loud stages.

[nedorama]

Originally Posted by miercoles

I run the vocals through an Eventide - My band has a very "full" sound - Distortion, walls of keys, etc. I run the vocals, along with our whole setup, through a mixer (onyx) and send the mains out to the house. I have a hard time getting the vocals up to where I want them without them feeding back. Its usually through the monitors, even with the monitors at a reasonable leval. It just sort of sucks playing to a really low monitor mix.

I was thinking about getting a rack unit to eliminate that...

What do you think?

Couple of suggestions:

• You can get feedback suppressors, like the Behringer Feedback Destroyer, but it doesn't work great - I bought one used in a weak moment, and I'm thinking a 31 band EQ would do better. Some people have reported luck with the dbx driverack, but this is meant to be inline between mixer and speaker, not front of house.
• If you have an EQ, ringing out the monitors is an excellent suggestion. Google the term and there's tons of articles on how to do it.
• Mic technique - if you're singing through SM58's or similar, you really need to eat the mic and be right on top of it. The only time our band has feedback issues is when our harmonica player moves away from the mic.
• Mic and monitor placement can be critical, sometimes only a few inches. Try moving the mic around in relation to the monitor.
• If the keys are only being heard through the monitors, that may be an issue. Get your keyboard player his/her own amp (either keyboard amp or a powered monitor) so that levels don't need to be insanely high - otherwise you're cranking up the vocals to be heard over the keys. We had this issue for a long time until we realized we could dedicate one of our powered monitors to the keyboard player, and then have much lower monitor volumes of the instruments - mostly vocals.

[Kiwiburger]

I struggled with mic feedback for years. Then I made a major discovery. Mic manufacturers lie. The tell huge porkies all the time. So I had been struggling with expensive allegedly hypercardiod mics that allegedly were very good at avoiding feedback. Then one day I compared with a lowly SM57, and I couldn't believe how much better it sounded, and how free from feedback it was.

So mic choice is #1 - and don't trust anyone.

I bought Sabine feedback killers - probably better than Behringer, but they were utter crap.

A quality 32 band eq is your best friend, and educate your ear so you can pull down the frequency as soon as you start to hear it. Watch out for cheap noisy ones though.

[nedorama]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

I struggled with mic feedback for years. Then I made a major discovery. Mic manufacturers lie. The tell huge porkies all the time. So I had been struggling with expensive allegedly hypercardiod mics that allegedly were very good at avoiding feedback. Then one day I compared with a lowly SM57, and I couldn't believe how much better it sounded, and how free from feedback it was.

So mic choice is #1 - and don't trust anyone..

Funny you should mention - a lot of our feedback went away when we switched everyone to SM57s instead of 58's. The harmonica player is still on a 58, but his feedback issues are mostly with poor mic technique (or being cursed, which is more likely)

[ninjashoes]

Originally Posted by oldgreensock

Take time to tune the PA to the room.

For free you could tell everybody to turn down on stage. This will improve your overall sound more drastically then any piece of gear you can ever dream of will. I cannot stress this point enough!!!!!!! It will work.......I mean it........PS...Make them turn down!!!!!

That usually doesn't happen though....as in...."MY amp has to be this loud for the tone" or case of super loud drummer.

For $150 you could buy an Audix OM-6 (or 5) Vocal mic that has the most gain before feedback I have ever experienced in 14 years of live sound. Be sure to sing with your lips touching the wind screen the entire performance. Great live vocal mic for really really really loud stages.

I was just about to say try a high quality mic

[lordwesley]

If possible move the FoH speakers further forward and make sure the monitors are positioned behind the mics where they pick up from least. Depending on the individual situation this can range from sorting the problem completely to doing bugger all. But it's free and often works.
Also make sure the vox aren't compressed to ridiculous levels.

[nedorama]

This may not be the right place, but having trouble figuring out how to start new threads.

Just bought a DRPA, and have gone through the manual. For the show tonight, we are using DRPA, 2 JRX115 powered by a QSC 1850HD (It's all we have, I know...). We're planning on adding a sub later but we also mix as we play (we're small time) so this helps a little.

I've looked through the manual, but it doesn't say how to set up for a stereo system - should my speakers go in the mid output, or low output?

thanks ahead of time for any help, and mods, please move this if it's not in the right place.

[aussie_techie]

let the foh guy do his job instead of trying to mix everything your self.

most automatic boxs are nothing but trouble.

many people like to use Audix and Sennheiser mics but when you bring them into a room that has been tuned for a 58 they are nothing but trouble. stick with whatever the room is setup for.

[nedorama]

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

let the foh guy do his job instead of trying to mix everything your self.

very good question - why are you mixing the band vs. the foh guy? Is there a specific reason why you can't give the foh guy all the inputs, vocal and otherwise? You can still have the eventide near you, or tell him the effect you're looking for and/or move the eventide to his rack location. IF you're mixing it just so you can use the eventide, that may be your biggest problem.

[bdemenil]

Ive found over compression to be the most frequent cause of feedback. I use a sure sm9 on lead vocal. Among the condensors I've tried it is the best at feedback rejection. Having good monitors also helps as there is a tendency to crank bad monitors to compensate for their lack of clarity.

But over compression is definitely the #1 culprit. So many house engineers do this without understanding the relationship between compression and feedback.

Sm58 is not a good sounding Mic imo

[Manfrensengensen]

Mic type
Mic monitor placement
Mic technique
Stage volume
Gain staging on mixer channels
EQ
Room

Are all factors.

[Steve_B]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

I struggled with mic feedback for years. Then I made a major discovery. Mic manufacturers lie. The tell huge porkies all the time. So I had been struggling with expensive allegedly hypercardiod mics that allegedly were very good at avoiding feedback. Then one day I compared with a lowly SM57, and I couldn't believe how much better it sounded, and how free from feedback it was.

So mic choice is #1 - and don't trust anyone.

I bought Sabine feedback killers - probably better than Behringer, but they were utter crap.

A quality 32 band eq is your best friend, and educate your ear so you can pull down the frequency as soon as you start to hear it. Watch out for cheap noisy ones though.

I don’t doubt that manufacturers lie, but you did know that hypercardiod mics have a back lobe. You need to place the monitor to the side and at an angle rather than immediately behind the microphone.

The feedback eliminators are better than a graphic for eq’ing monitors. They are basically a number of parametric equalisers. Learn how to use them manually rather than rely on trying to accomplish everything automatically; it is not that hard.

Eq will only get you so far. If that is still not loud enough and the band can’t play quieter get better monitors.

[GZsound]

You have gotten some great suggestions here.

However, the basic problem is that your band is playing too loud on stage. If your band is indeed "professional" musicians, you need to start with discussing how they play on stage.

If everyone is louder than everyone else, no mic, EQ, etc. will help. They need to understand that the PA should carry the load and their on stage equipment should only be used to monitor their playing.

It's a hard fight. Start recording your gigs from out in front and get an idea of what the stage volume is compared to the FOH speaker mix.

I ran sound for my rock and roll bands from stage for nearly 30 years and always found the problem to be on stage. Work with professionals.

[Uncle Russ]

I was lucky enough to lead one of my real-world fantasy bands, the Concord Jazz All Stars, in 1988: Scott Hamilton (tenor sax), Dave McKenna (piano), Bill Berry (trumpet), Dave Stone (bass), Jake Hanna (drums), and myself on clarinet. The group kicked butt. Three of us are still alive.

Maybe not exactly a true, historic fantasy band but I actually lived the fantasy! That must count for something.