Re-creating classical music with midi/samples

[dawnfirst]

Hey guys,
I need your advice/opinion on something...

I want to 're-make' classical recordings such as mozart and bach etc
in pro-tools.

I had an idea of downloading royalty free midi, and then running the midi through Structure/EW symphonic orchestra.

Is there anywhere to download/pay for TOP quality midi scores?
ie with correct velocities/feel etc?

if so, is it going to be hard for someone like me, with no classical knowledge whatsoever, to use something like EW symphonic orchestra and make
a 'passable' version of a classical song?



Im asking this as I want to know if im wasting my time forking out for
structure/EW or if I should be going down another path.


Thanks guys,
appreciate any input here.

-mike

[rackdude]

CLASSICAL MUSIC ARCHIVES - CLASSICAL MUSIC

I think eastwest is great. Get colossus too though so that way you have a huge selection of instruments... including a great piano.

[reid]

How 'real' do you want it to sound? That solely determines how much time and how much money you're going to have to spend achieveing your goal.

Using MIDI files is only going to get you part of the way there - if you're lucky the pitch and length of the notes is going to be right, but then the fun begins. Using a good orchestral sample library such as the stuff from VSL Vienna Instruments or EW Quantum Leap Orchestra Platinum gives you the tools to achieve what you're looking for, but only if you know how to use them.

There's a huge amount of massaging and polishing of MIDI data involved in getting a performance that sounds 'human', and a careful use of the correct articulation and playing style samples is essential. Just sticking a string pad into ProTools and getting it to play a Beethoven string quartet is going to sound gruesome.

There are a lot of orchestral sample libraries out there, but if you want the 'best', then you're probably going to have to invest in either a lib like Vienna Instruments Special Edition (or if you're well heeled, the Symphonic Cube) or EWQLO Platinum. And be prepared for a lot of time spent getting to know how to make the samples sit up and dance for you. A good starting point might be to choose a strings piece from Bach or Mozart, buy the VSL 'Chamber Strings' lib and see how you get on. If you like it, spend more money and do bigger pieces - if not, you've only had to make a small cash outlay to find out.

Check out the forums here and here - it's all they ever blether about.

[mixerguy]

ummmmmm..... why bother?

seriously. there are so many decent audio CDs floating around..... with decent recordings...

virtual instrument based 'orchestras' suck.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by mixerguy

ummmmmm..... why bother?

seriously. there are so many decent audio CDs floating around..... with decent recordings...

virtual instrument based 'orchestras' suck.

indeed so and i kida agree - however there is always he fun and challenge to see how close you can get....

Our company runs a contract based orchestra in London for media work (film/games/tv) and let me tell ya - you cant get any where near to real sound to the trained ear BUT you can fool the layman!! Having said hat, thee is a reason most modern MIDI based score seems to base around boring pedal notes and hardly modulates at all.... anyway - East West have some good stuff as to VSL. You really got to work it though - you cant just plumb it in! Without significant knowledge of the orchestra it will come out sounding , well, MIDI....

[Guruceta]

These days, orchestras programs a pretty easy to use and sound very well, specially strings (brass don't sound that good). EW Gold edition is amazing and very easy to use.
But it doesn't have so much control on the dynamics of the instruments.
With Vienna you can control the touch and sound of the arch in the strings with the modulation wheel!! fantastic but not as easy as EW Gold edition. I recommend you this one. And for the mix put the altiverb mozart conzerthause reverb (large). Perfect for Midi based orchestra recordings.

[Eldhrimnir]

Originally Posted by Guruceta

These days, orchestras programs a pretty easy to use and sound very well, specially strings (brass don't sound that good).

I tend to strongly disagree.
With strings, for the most part, it's very difficult to achieve a convincing sound, especially with solo strings. Dynamics, vibrato and legato transitions have always been a real pain in the a$$. Brass however, can sound really awesome if used correctly. VSL are really heading the right direction with the VI-engine, from what I've seen and heard.
It seems to me that strings are just too complex and too filled with tiny variations and coincidental/accidental details in the playing to be fully replicated. You very seldom play the violin as 'static' as you would with i.e. french horns.

Anyway..let me guess, you play the trumpet? (I play the violin)

/Daniel

[reid]

Originally Posted by mixerguy

ummmmmm..... why bother?

seriously. there are so many decent audio CDs floating around..... with decent recordings...

virtual instrument based 'orchestras' suck.

So true.... as some wise fella said about VSL: 'Wow, it sounds just like the real thing - until you hear the real thing!'

But it puts food on the table whilst I wait for someone to put the budget for narcoman's orchestra on my plate

[reid]

Originally Posted by Eldhrimnir

...It seems to me that strings are just too complex and too filled with tiny variations and coincidental/accidental details in the playing to be fully replicated. You very seldom play the violin as 'static' as you would with i.e. french horns.

Yup. Doesn't seem to matter how many violins VSL throw in their sample sets (12 desks for Appassionata I think?), it still sounds out of whack compared to the real deal - a bit too static, in the same way that many of Altiverb's IRs are great on the first listen, but just don't breathe like the hardware they're meant to represent. It's funny that some of the oldest string samples around (the Miroslav set) still sound the most convincing - a bit less attention to perfection and a bit more emphasis on 'the' sound, I think.

[duckoff]

Agreed - VSL etc is fine for 'additional' strings ( eg pop stuff ) but for classical or prominent stuff I'd always go for real ( even if it's just a tracked up quartet )

It sounds like a good learning exercise but other than that it'll be a pain in the arse.

[dawnfirst]

Thanks for all your advice guys,
really appreciate it.