Snake fanouts

[ColMustard]

Hey all,

I've been an avid lurker to this forum for a long time now. You guys have taught me a great deal, and it's one hell of a tremendous resource. You guys truly know your stuff. </asskissing>

So, I'm in the beginning of a big expansion to my mobile setup. I'm putting together a 24 channel splitter system utilizing 3 Radial 8ox. This will be mounted in an SKB case with 4 - 90 pin ELCO connectors channeled to all the DSUBs on the Radials. I'm planning on having XLR patchpoints as well to utilize the extra channels on the snakes. This is the first time I've built something like this. However, because this place is such a good resource, I've found lots of answers already.

My question to you all right now is actually a pretty simple one. At the ends of your FOH/MON/REC snake runs, how long do you let the fanouts splay from the snake itself? I plan on splitting the snakes I'm building into groups of 8, 4, etc, but how far back should I cut my snake's casing back for the fanout?

Thanks!

[bishopthomas]

You are doing a 3 way split? That would make me think that you are planning on providing PA (separate FOH and monitor positions) on some of your gigs. Otherwise a 2 way split would probably take care of your needs (one to your recording rig, one to the PA's splitter snake to distribute as needed). If you are providing consoles then you'll need your fanouts to be long enough to reach from channel 1 to channel 56(?). Otherwise your fanout would only have to be long enough for a "standard" size snake box (18" tails would give you a little less than a 3' spread). Since you're wanting to use Elcos, which are relatively inexpensive, why not make up a set of short tails and a set of long tails? Then if you're providing consoles the tails stay patched and attached to an Elco connector. Then you just run an Elco -> Elco cable from splitter to console and add a few minutes to your dinner break.

[ColMustard]

That's not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all. At that point, my long runs and short runs can be whatever they need to be... inputs or outputs.

Nice. Thanks.

The 3 way split is just an added bonus to the system. I'm really only in need for 2, but the Radial offers up 3 way. If I've got it, I might as well make it available if the need ever arises.

[dirkjan]

I don't know if you're also using a rack with outboard gear (FX-rack, multitrack recorder, etc.)?

In our FOH set we do and we also use snakes between the FX-racks and the mixer. This way the FX sends and returns can also stay patched in both racks and mixer which adds some more minutes to you dinner break.

[Remoteness]

That's a cool way of doing it.

On some of our racks we also daisy chain XLRs to our ELCOs for the times we only need a few circuits to connect or when a multipin went kaput and need to change it out ASAP or when there's outside equipment to add.

Originally Posted by dirkjan

I don't know if you're also using a rack with outboard gear (FX-rack, multitrack recorder, etc.)?

In our FOH set we do and we also use snakes between the FX-racks and the mixer. This way the FX sends and returns can also stay patched in both racks and mixer which adds some more minutes to you dinner break.

[Indrestudios]

I built up our splitter last year using those same 8ox boxes, they're built like a tank and sound great, I think you'll be really happy. Can't tell you how many times I've been thankful for that little "pad" button on super hot keyboard & sampler lines.

Don't forget about the Euroblock option on the rear panel. The connectors are much more affordable than making / buying Dsubs, with the bonus that they're very easy to service. We bounce them around the country without issue. Our splitter uses Euroblock on the radial side & 3 x elco jacks on the back panel.

Also, check the documentation on the Radials - there are three sets of outputs, but only one is on the transformer.

[bishopthomas]

That's good to know about the Euroblock connectors. I am planning on taking a 24 channel IEM monitor rig on the road with those as the splitter system. In the "real world" where I'll use the 8Oxes in my recording rig I will use W4 Mass connectors, but in this monitor setup I'd like to use XLR tails right out of the Euroblocks. I don't mind having to reseat the connectors every once in a while, so if you think this will hold up to a couple of months on the road then I'd rather do that.

[Indrestudios]

The Euroblocks are perfect for "inside the rack" connections, but you really wouldn't want to mess with them for any sort of day to day patching. They seat very firmly, actually takes a bit of force to remove them.

I have a cabling upgrade in the works for our box, the (6) elcos are getting replaced with panel mount W4s.

[Remoteness]

To me the only thing that is kind of a drag is the fact you only have one iso out of three split outputs.

[ColMustard]

I did a small search for Euroblock connectors and couldn't come up with any suppliers. I've already got all the DSUBs for the project.

There's no doubt now that I'm taking bishopthomas' advise and building the snakes ELCO to ELCO and separate short fanout to ELCOs. Great idea.

... now should I make them male to male, or male to female? Male to male seems to make more sense. Would I be limiting myself in some way that I can't think of, if I did it that way?

I guess I might if I were wanting to plug the fans directly into the splitter or whatever else in a pinch... hmm

[Indrestudios]

Euroblocks are also known as "Phoenix" connectors - here's the link to the Mouser page where we ordered ours. They work perfectly for this application, I've soldered about 900 d-subs in my life and this was a welcome change. Strip the wire, tin the ends, and tighten down the set screw. They've been rock solid for our rig.

1803675]Mouser Electronics - Product Detail

[bishopthomas]

Maybe you can get them through Radial when you place your order for the 8Oxes. Let me know because I will be in the same boat very soon. I think the standard for Elco genders is female on the panel end and male for the interconnect. Think of a loose Elco in a doghouse as a panel mount (sometimes they actually are mounted).

[valleysound]

I would go with 3 feet on the fanout. It may seem like a lot until you work with a console that is 6 feet long.

[ColMustard]

Originally Posted by Indrestudios

Euroblocks are also known as "Phoenix" connectors - here's the link to the Mouser page where we ordered ours...

1803675]Mouser Electronics - Product Detail

*smacks forehead* Of course... that makes sense. Though, I've already got the connectors and my budget is stretched the way it is. I may have to forgo those and stick to the DSUBs this time around.

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Maybe you can get them through Radial when you place your order for the 8Oxes. Let me know because I will be in the same boat very soon. I think the standard for Elco genders is female on the panel end and male for the interconnect. Think of a loose Elco in a doghouse as a panel mount (sometimes they actually are mounted).

Already got the 8oxes (8oxen?). I've planned ahead to panel mount everything. Got to keep it clean, right? Already got the female elcos for the splits. I guess my question was geared more toward whether my subsequent snakes should be male/female or male/male. I currently don't have a another box where I need/want multipin connectors. BUT I really want to be ready for future expansion. Who wants to re-pin things?

Originally Posted by valleysound

I would go with 3 feet on the fanout. It may seem like a lot until you work with a console that is 6 feet long.

Thanks, valleysound. I think I'll probably follow that advice too. You and bishopthomas make valid points with nice big long fans.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by valleysound

I would go with 3 feet on the fanout. It may seem like a lot until you work with a console that is 6 feet long.

+1 -- For me the wider the spread the better...
Sometimes you may need to split / feed between two boxes or something to that affect.
IMO, it's better to have the extra length instead of using shorty XLRs and such.