Mic splitter everyone should respect

[MichaelPatrick]

I record live acoustic and on rare occasions I have to share mics --usually mine-- with a FOH guy.

What 16ch mic splitters are out there that preserve a really pure audio chain for guys like me, while giving the FOH guy taps that they can't bitch about because the sonic quality is top notch?

[Remoteness]

Have you checked any of the threads from the splitter tag search?

I trust you will fine a few good suggestions that will lead you in the right direction.

[travisbrown]

You've got the choice of wire splits and transformered splits. Wire splits can work fine if you coordinate phantom power, but be wary that buzzes in one system can be passed to another, etc.

Isolated splits provide more protection against systemic problems.

If you are just splitting one signal into two, you probably won't notice a difference between active and passive splitters. Transformered splits are more expensive, but keep the signal strong.

As for brand or manufacturer - dunno. Whirlwind, Radial, Rapco, Horizon. Quality varies a bit between them all. Radial always makes great stuff. Your local cable shop probably will make one to your spec too. I've used splitters with Lundahl and Jensen transformers. I can't tell the difference. There's little magic to it - the difference between brands is probably more in the craftsmanship of the enclosures and the quality of the transformers.

It would be pretty easy to make your own if you were so inclined.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Have you checked any of the threads from the splitter tag search?

Yes, but I gave up after scanning two pages of headings without noticing any about sonic quality. I just scanned again and found this one, "any audible difference among popular splitters?" and it answered my question.

It looks like the way to go is to use Jensen transformers and take the primary/direct side of the coil for recording (my stuff) and give the secondary to the FOH guys.

Originally Posted by Remoteness

...you'll never go wrong with a Jensen. Either way do everything you can to keep the primary side of the transformer feed for yourself.

Thanks

[Jungle Jazz]

What's your budget? Sixteen channels of splitters like the Radial 8ox will cost you $1700 or more, and don't forget the extra cabling that you'll need to get into and out of it.

I've found a couple budget solutions that are working for me. You can get 16 channels of either the ART S8 or the EWI MST-412 for under $500. The ART is an 8 channel rackmount unit with two way splits (one direct, one iso), and the EWI is a four channel 3 way split (one direct, two iso).

http://www.guitarcenter.com/ART-S8-8...21-i1386012.gc
http://www.audiopile.net/products/El...2_cutsheet.asp

If you are still at Santa Clara University, you're pretty close to me. If you are curious, send me PM, and you can check out the ART and the EWI units.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

You've got the choice of wire splits and transformered splits. Wire splits can work fine if you coordinate phantom power, but be wary that buzzes in one system can be passed to another, etc.

Isolated splits provide more protection against systemic problems.

If you are just splitting one signal into two, you probably won't notice a difference between active and passive splitters. Transformered splits are more expensive, but keep the signal strong.

As for brand or manufacturer - dunno. Whirlwind, Radial, Rapco, Horizon. Quality varies a bit between them all. Radial always makes great stuff. Your local cable shop probably will make one to your spec too. I've used splitters with Lundahl and Jensen transformers. I can't tell the difference. There's little magic to it - the difference between brands is probably more in the craftsmanship of the enclosures and the quality of the transformers.

It would be pretty easy to make your own if you were so inclined.

Travis, this helps me get the sense of it. It also helped to read a bit (Steve's admonishment):

• Transformers prevent problems
• Good ones have negligible sonic degradation
• The guy who brings the splitter gets to take the direct tap

I'll bring a splitter with Jensens --a brand no one can bitch about-- and take the direct tap for myself!

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz

What's your budget? Sixteen channels of splitters like the Radial 8ox will cost you $1700 or more, and don't forget the extra cabling that you'll need to get into and out of it.

I've found a couple budget solutions that are working for me. You can get 16 channels of either the ART S8 or the EWI MST-412 for under $500. The ART is an 8 channel rackmount unit with two way splits (one direct, one iso), and the EWI is a four channel 3 way split (one direct, two iso).

ART S8 8-Channel Balanced Mic Splitter and more Mic Pre-Amps at GuitarCenter.com.
ML

If you are still at Santa Clara University, you're pretty close to me. If you are curious, send me PM, and you can check out the ART and the EWI units.

I appreciate the point about extra fuss/cables, etc. I'll have to plan out some physical options, since things change from one gig to the next.

I like that these devices are rack mounted. I may need a floor box too for some gigs.

I'll probably bite the bullet - pay extra for the Jensens because I want FOH guys to be assured of the sonic quality and feel the love.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

I'll bring a splitter with Jensens --a brand no one can bitch about-- and take the direct tap for myself!

Good luck with that. I haven't met a FOH guy yet who didn't fight tooth and nail for the direct out.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

Good luck with that. I haven't met a FOH guy yet who didn't fight tooth and nail for the direct out.

Good point. I'll lose sometimes. But at least I'll have a Jensen secondary to fall back on.

[Ken K]

A few months ago I posted a question about splitters and the Radial 8ox was recommended. Unfortunately I couldn't find anywhere that carried it even after calling Radial who never called me back. I was able to buy the single Radial splitter (1 in 3 out). It worked fine however the male end of the mic cable just seats by friction (doesn't click) so if someone steps on a chord it can pull out (which happened). A few months later I needed an additional splitter fast so I bought the EWI MST-412. It worked just fine for vocals and four channels was cheaper then the single channel Radial. I have never tried using the EWI on drums so it might turn out to not sound so great in that application but for splitting vocals into a PA it worked just fine.

[talbe1019]

Thought I would give my 2 cents.
I bought 7 used Horizon MS-4 and completely re-wired and switched out the transformers. The stock transformers look to be pretty much junk, but they have Neutrik and Amphenol XLR's (If I can remember)...so I bought some Crimson Audio transformers, riveted them in and proceeded to re-wire. The stock transformers are just siliconed in place and have no mu-metal housing. They also have a 20 db pad and an input on both the back and front. I eliminated the pad and the back input (they are both still there but dead). I went to the Jensen site and sort of copied their schematic and added a resistor and a cap to the circuit. I also left the gnd lift in the circuit as well.
For me this worked out as a cost effective 28 channel split. I think I paid about $75-100 for each of the MS-4 and $35 a transformer. So let's see...that's $1000 for transformers and about $650 for the MS-4's. $1600 for 28 channels. Jensen transformers run about $70 a piece. The specs for Crimson Audio are almost the same as the Jensens. Here is the link for the Crimson Audio transformers. And...these prices were 4 years ago.
Crimso Audio Transformers

[mal]

We use the Klark Technik splitters that give both electronic and transformer splits..used at many live gigs and festival recordings...these are 12 ways but I believe they have some new models with diff't no's of channels...quality is great.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by mal

We use the Klark Technik splitters that give both electronic and transformer splits..used at many live gigs and festival recordings...these are 12 ways but I believe they have some new models with diff't no's of channels...quality is great.

The DN1248 looks great but it's quite expensive. The Square One splitter has 8 channels but doesn't have the better Heritage series preamps.

[ESL]

Wireworks makes very nice Jensen-equipped splitters to order:
Wireworks - Microphone Splitters

They made some line-level splits too - but FOH isn't always keen on keeping pres on stage. I consider this to be a must-do for long cable runs though. For acoustic work, I often split the line level signal to feed a backup and/or a camera operator whenever I can't use an A/D converter's multiple outs.

I also (happily) use Radial's JS series. I did have a unit with a DOA isolated out but it was replaced very quickly by my friendly local dealer.

[rob99]

Hi

I have some Radial JS3 mic spliiters. I bought them based on the posts in gearslutz that mentioned how "good" they would be ... something similar to no reduced sound quality or work well.

Tested them between the mic and micpres. Needed one mic into several pres.
The A/B tests, splitting the mic line with a JS3 and connecting the mic directly to a micpre revealled that the sound quality is always degraded. No difference (or so minor I couldn't hear it) between the THRU and Isolated outputs. Both degraded the sound.

The results can still sound good, but for my application, having one in the signal chain from mic to micpre dramatically (I can easily hear the diiference, and don't like what's happening) reduces (dramatically?) the sound that my other equipment is designed to produce.

To someone who does not hear my equipment without the splitter inline, the sound is just fine, or actually great. If you know what your signal chain can sound like, you may not be happy with a splitter between mic and micpre.

Have not tested them splitting the signal out of a preamp, can't imagine why it would be any diffferent - ie no effect on the sound quality.

Have several splitters, tested each. Each reduces the quality.

You need to audition splitters and determine if you can live with the change in sound. In the case where you must split the signal, there seems to be no choice that does not reduce sound quality. If the splitting system was digital and much, much more expensive, the effect on sound would be contingent on the quality of the AD/DA.

Just my 2 cents.

[MichaelPatrick]

I'm getting some great advice from all here and, trust me, I appreciate it. No decisions yet. I'll have to weigh it out.

Rob99, your cautionary note is well taken. I don't think there's any great way to split and preserve all the quality. Impedance, terminal load, etc... lots of things happen to those delicate mic signals and it all matters. Thanks for the good words.

[ESL]

In addition to rob99's caveats, it's also worth noting that activating phantom on an isolated channel is usually audible in the direct channel's system. It's usually not necessary (to turn 48v on the isolated side) but we usually cannot control the person/people on the other side of the splitter...

[aussie_techie]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

The Square One splitter has 8 channels but doesn't have the better Heritage series preamps.

have you heard the square one?
it has 'XL8-inspired mic preamps' but ive never used an XL8 and we all know that 'inspired' can be along way from the original.

while S1 is made for a different market segment than the DN series KT would never put out a sub par product so no one can bitch about anything KT. well except for being purple

[valleysound]

I got a CBI 32 channel 2 way split, Neutrik transformers. The direct goes to the 150 foot fan, isolated to the 25 foot. At clubs where I'm hired to record, I plug the 25 foot fan to the main snake going to FOH and use the 150 direct to my recording location, also means I control phantom power. The stage is plugged into my snake as the main. Not too many questions from FOH about which split they got unless I forget to turn on the phantom to a mic. If I had Jensens or Lundahls, I wouldn't care which end I got, but I try to take the direct if I can. When I get Smaart, I will check the response of the Neutrik transformers and also check if they are consistent from channel to channel.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

have you heard the square one? ... KT would never put out a sub par product so no one can bitch about anything KT.

Point taken. Haven't heard the Square One. I agree that KT makes great stuff.

[KAJI]

Hi MichaelPatrick.

Did you discard the option of soldering yourself two good 8 ch Starquad multipar cables (for a total of 16 chs)? A good ole' analogue split can be cheap and reliable. Unless you need something fancier.

[SoundWeavers]

radial 8ox

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by SoundWeavers

radial 8ox

Passive splitter with 36dB pads for line level sources is a beautiful thing!

It has three outputs, but only one of them is isolated.
Do they make an optional dual output trany for this awesome unit?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by KAJI

Did you discard the option of soldering yourself two good 8 ch Starquad multipar cables (for a total of 16 chs)? A good ole' analogue split can be cheap and reliable. Unless you need something fancier.

Thought about it. I definitely want to isolate the systems with iron or an active device.

[Remoteness]

The active device should still have isolation XFMRs if you were thinking differently.

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Thought about it. I definitely want to isolate the systems with iron or an active device.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Passive splitter with 36dB pads for line level sources is a beautiful thing!

It has three outputs, but only one of them is isolated.
Do they make an optional dual output trany for this awesome unit?

No. I asked and they do not offer that.

Although I don't see why you couldn't swap them out and rewire new ones in yourself...

[jacobfarron]

No one's mentions BSS splitters yet. Check out the MSR-604 - two transformer-coupled feeds (can get Jenson), in and out balancing, etc. I used a rack of them at my old job for a few years. Never got the chance to A/B it with anything but it was always clean and my boss swears by them.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

Good luck with that. I haven't met a FOH guy yet who didn't fight tooth and nail for the direct out.

Yeah, but if you can repatch 24-48 cables in the splitter while his back is turned walking back to the FOH console, he'd never know the difference.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

No. I asked and they do not offer that.

Although I don't see why you couldn't swap them out and rewire new ones in yourself...

I love to modify when possible...

Have you look inside the 8ox yet?
Is there room to wire it without messing up the circuit boards?

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I love to modify when possible...

Have you look inside the 8ox yet?
Is there room to wire it without messing up the circuit boards?

I have not, but I'm looking at maybe picking up a couple of these for my next splitter setup. I'd also be interested to find out more about the "guts" from anyone who does have one and has opened it up at some point.