18th February 2008
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#1 | | Gear nut
Joined: Sep 2007 Location: WV
Posts: 97
Thread Starter  |  Help with 2 Remote Recordings
I am taking on a new venture and I hope that some of you can give me a hand. I built my business for recording classical music, so I have mostly SDC. I have been approached to do some recordings of another passion of mine, jazz and blues.
My cabinet includes:
3 Pearl OM16 (omni)
2 DPA 4006 (omni)
2 Neumann KM184 (card)
1 Audio Technica 4033 (card)
a smattering of 57 and 58s
And, I am considering the purchase of an AEA R84 (if it can be used for multiple purposes and if it acceptable for live recording)
The rooms consists of coffee houses and performance theaters, anywhere from 20-200 people. Live reinforcement will always be there, but I would prefer to mic separately.
The first situation is a Piedmont Blues group, guitar (acoustic), vocals and harmonica. I am wondering how you folks would approach it. My first thought would be a Pearl OM16 and a KM184 on the guitar, the 4033 in front of the harmonica and a SM57 in front of his small Gibson amp which he uses on occasion. He is mostly acoustic. As for vocals I was thinking either using a DPA (a la Tuck and Patti) or the R84 if purchased.
The second situation is a jazz trio (piano, bass and drums). Here I was thinking the 4006 on the drums (minimal setup). As for piano and bass I am stuck. I typically would use a ribbon on the bass, or an KM184 mounted in of front the bridge. So, would the R84 be applicable in this situation? My other thought would be an ORTF pair at the piano and a Pearl or AT4033 near the bass.
This series of performances will be in a country club, app. 100-150 people.
I was in college when I last recorded jazz groups, and then it was always a stereo feed from the house and a couple of room mics. But, I think I can do better.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
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18th February 2008
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#2 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,650
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For the blues group, is the Gibson amp for electric guitar or harp? Most blues harpists are more comfortable gripping the mic along with the harmonica. I usually end up miking the amp with a 57 because that's how those guys usually play. Half the time it's a Blues Jr, the other half is some old Gibson (which is why I asked earlier). For the acoustic guitar you may consider adding a nice DI (the PA will undoubtedly use this method so coordinate using your own high quality DI and splitting the signal). For vocals, again, it depends on what the artist is comfortable with. You don't want to put a large diaphragm condensor in front of him if he's not used to using one. Chances are he'l ask you if you have an SM58, or at least the PA operator will. Consider renting a nice handheld vocal mic like the KMS105, VX5 or 10, KSM9, etc.
For jazz my first attempt would probably be 4006's on piano, 4033 on bass, KM184's as overheads, a 57 on kick, and the Pearls as "kit" mics. See some of Steve's techniques for placement ideas. You didn't mention room mics. If you need them for this gig then you could forego the kit mics.
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18th February 2008
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#3 | | Gear nut
Joined: Sep 2007 Location: WV
Posts: 97
Thread Starter |
Bishop,
The Gibson BR-9 is for the harmonica player. He uses it on 2-3 songs. He is an acoustic player in the style of John Lee Williamson (Sonny Boy I), Hammy Nixon, J.D. Short. Most of his effects are achieved by his hands. The guitarist uses only mics on his instruments. He is also an acoustic player in the style of Blind Willie McTell, Skip James, etc. He also sings so a hand held is not an option. I think if they could get away with it they wouldn't even use a PA.
As for the combo, there will be no reinforcement. It is completely acoustic, so I have some more liberty there. I thought about the 4006 on drums after reading a DPA article about being able to cover a jazz drum set with 2 mics, so I thought I would give it a try.
Thanks for the suggestions. Keep 'em coming.
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18th February 2008
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#4 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,650
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So if the guitarist is used to the microphone then all is well. By handheld I only meant a "normal" live performance vocal mic. It doesn't HAVE to be physically held onto, that's just what they're typically called.  | |
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18th February 2008
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#5 | | Gear nut
Joined: Sep 2007 Location: WV
Posts: 97
Thread Starter |
I figured that, I don't know why I was taking things literally today. I guess very little sleep last night.  | |
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21st February 2008
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#6 | | Gear nut
Joined: Sep 2007 Location: WV
Posts: 97
Thread Starter |
Anybody, have any other thoughts?
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21st February 2008
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#7 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 58
| drumkit omni "underheads" for jazz
I've used the double omni method several times and -not surprisingly- found that its usability depends on the drummer. In general, it doesn't work very well on large kits with lots of toms nor for folks who mount their cymbals way up high - especially if you want anything close to a well-defined "tick - tick" on the ride.
The bass drum pretty much stays nice and centered even if you pan wide. I also like that there's less emphasis on the stick/head collisions and more on the drums (shells) as a whole.
When the when room sounds good and the group is well-balanced, I skip the above in favor of a stereo pair. I almost always put spots on bass and piano though...
Last edited by ESL; 21st February 2008 at 08:25 PM..
Reason: specified "jazz"
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21st February 2008
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#8 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2004 Location: Salina, Kansas
Posts: 726
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buy yourself some splitters and use the venue mics if they are good. Many times I blend a little of both. I use some of mine and some of theirs. Splitters are never bad things to own. You can buy even the little horizon 4 channel jobs or some have posted about a very inexpensive ART splitter. Double your mics for little cash  | |
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22nd February 2008
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#9 | | Gear nut
Joined: Sep 2007 Location: WV
Posts: 97
Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by ESL  I've used the double omni method several times and -not surprisingly- found that its usability depends on the drummer. In general, it doesn't work very well on large kits with lots of toms nor for folks who mount their cymbals way up high - especially if you want anything close to a well-defined "tick - tick" on the ride.
The bass drum pretty much stays nice and centered even if you pan wide. I also like that there's less emphasis on the stick/head collisions and more on the drums (shells) as a whole.
When the when room sounds good and the group is well-balanced, I skip the above in favor of a stereo pair. I almost always put spots on bass and piano though... | Fortunately, this drummer is not a heavy hitter. He uses a small kit, he typically uses his floor tom as a music stand. I haven't been to the room yet. But, I am assuming it is like most country club ball rooms.
Thanks.
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