Official 2008 GRAMMY Awards Show Discussion Thread

[Stephen B.]

Originally Posted by DRC

Kanye West is more talented than Paul Simon? Could KW even arrange backing vocal harmonies on a song let alone a horn section? Do you think he even knows what the 'circle of fifths' are? How is the guy talented? Because he knows how to work pop culture? Because he could pay for his Mothers final visit to Dr. 90210? I'm pretty sure that Paul Simon thinks George Bush hates black people too. Does that give "The Boxer" a little more relevance?

To be fair, what you are talking about here is not "talent," it's knowledge. Does Paul Simon have more musical knowledge than Kanye? Of course. Does he have more talent than Kanye? Of course. I don't know what my point is. I guess it's that, while Paul Simon is awesome (did his latest album, Surprise, get completely snubbed?), Kanye is pretty good too. I like them both. And I bet Kanye West likes Paul Simon, and vice versa. Good is good, regardless of the style/genre. Or maybe it isn't. I think much smarter people than I have debated that for a long time.

[DRC]

Originally Posted by Stephen B.

To be fair, what you are talking about here is not "talent," it's knowledge. Does Paul Simon have more musical knowledge than Kanye? Of course. Does he have more talent than Kanye? Of course. I don't know what my point is. I guess it's that, while Paul Simon is awesome (did his latest album, Surprise, get completely snubbed?), Kanye is pretty good too. I like them both. And I bet Kanye West likes Paul Simon, and vice versa. Good is good, regardless of the style/genre. Or maybe it isn't. I think much smarter people than I have debated that for a long time.

You don't think that there are 500 hungry people in any major American city that can do what Kanye does? I'm not just talking about knowledge. I do think that understanding the language of music offers more tools but that's not really what I was getting at so much.

Arranging harmony, on top of the guitar voicings, on top of those melodies, on top of those lyrics is what makes Paul Simon so talented. I'm not even a fan of his newer stuff and much as the S&G stuff either but it isn't without merit.

I mean how much of what goes into a Kanye West tune comes from him? The programming, the stealing (borrowing) of samples, the recording of any actual playing that goes on and who wrote the charts for the players? If it's his song, I would think that he would have all the parts worked out and notated.

I get it. He writes rhymes that some people dig. But does he sing? I mean really sing. Would you really call him a singer? Did he work out those tunes at the piano in his estate? He may be entertaining and all, but would you really say he is more talented than a guy who's tunes have embedded themselves in my head for hours?

More talented than a true songwriter? A true musician? It's a little hard to find respect for guys like Kanye and Jay-Z. How well would they do if no one had a TV?

[Lee Knight]

Originally Posted by kdp

There's more talent at my local pub on open mike nite.

Good lord!!! Where's your local at?!?!? That would be great seeing people as talented as Aretha, Hancock, Eldar or any of the many contributers to the Gospel segment. Just what are they putting in the beer at this place. Gotta get me some of that... you are a lucky guy.

[Plush]

My thoughts:

the first half was terrible and necrophillic, second half with Feist, UK Winehouse Rehab segment and Little Richard was great! Ringo was cool and classy. Kanye West is a dope and was zeroed out here.

Cirque du Soleil portion was meaningless and a time waster.

Kanye West in his segment about his mother was pitiful and off pitch. He can't sing, he's an egotistical dope and a cry baby. What an insult to Chicago.

Vince Gill's acceptance speech with Ringo was great.

Amy Winehouse segment was monumentally great and sound from London was much better than any other segment. Hope she can get it together to be more than a one hit wonder.

In my area, classical, the awards were Amero-centric and ignored the best work. Lang Lang's histrionics at the keyboard were vulgar. What an egotist. He's not needed in the industry in my opinion.

A chaotic show with FAR too much emphasis on RAPPPPPPPPPPP. Rap, what a piece of crap.

Neil Portnow caters to the rap community---for shame!

[rdc333]

Anyone know, is this being rebroadcast anywhere tonight or ?

[Plush]

Originally Posted by jnorman

aside from kanye being such a talentless prick, i was particularly amazed at how bad the orchestra micing was. those people had a mic on EVERY individual instrument - the first time i have ever seen that done. the sound was just horrendous - no unity or cohesion, and the mixing was a nightmare. there was simply no ensemble feel to the string sections or any of the backing instrumentation. i hope they do not do that any more.

oh yeah, did i mention how much i think kanye sucks? what a loser...

You're exactly right. The orchestral micing was hack like and the mix could not be saved because everything was miked so closely. Sound supervisors from NARAS ought to be shot. Pitiful.

Best sound of the evening was the Winehouse segment for sure.

Kanye is disgusting and a vulgar mope.

[hanuman]

After reading about the first 80 replies I wondered why nobody mentioned the fact that Amy Winehouse was not allowed to come....
I do not know her that well, but from a world's persective one can say that it is safer to have have a 'drunk' musician flying in the US then flying a 'murderer' into EU

[Simpleton]

Originally Posted by DRC

Ever notice with these guys that they sell more albums just for the fact that they are successful? Like the more money you make (and talk about) makes you more attractive. It's kind of like Paris Hilton being famous just for being famous. Not just for being attractive (there are a thousand girls in L.A. or Chicago or N.Y. that look just like her) but just for being famous.

Jay-Z has clothing line doesn't he? If all I had to do was make music and never, ever have to worry about a day job to create that music, why would I want or need my name on someone elses sweatshirt? Be cause he is in the pop culture bidnez. Not the music bidnez.

Pretty sad.

Exactly. That's how pretty much all mainstream Hip Hop is. That's how pretty much all Pop music is. It has completely and utterly lost all meaning and has become a marketing tool to sell pop culture and products to people. Nothing to do with talent (usually) or originality, or truth or honesty.

This is why there is such a thing as underground music. Because some people would go utterly ****ing crazy if all they could listen to is Beyonce and her ilk. Then once the Pop Culture Bidnez latches on to the latest underground release for disillusioned youth, another one will spring up. It's just a normal cycle that has gone on for years...

First there was Rock and Roll, and then the Hippies came along with their psychedelic protest music. That was co-opted by the record biz and packaged and sold to the masses as the next big thing. Then It became stupid shit like Journey. So Punk Rock came about and pretty soon that was co-opted by the Biz and marketed and then eventually became Flock of Seagulls, to which Metal came along, was co-opted, became Warrant, to which Grunge came along, was co-opted, became Nickelback... the cycle continues and will probably never end. (Mind you this is using Rock and Roll as an example, but the same kind of thing has happened to Hip Hop.)

If you want good music that doesn't make you nauseous turn off the pop stations and support your local college radio!

OK, rant over.

[jmarkham]

Originally Posted by lucey

For those who have heard the Hancock/Mitchell record ... is it all that? My wife heard one track on the radio and thought it felt very disjointed and unmusical. We both love Joni in the Hejira and Mingus era.

I think Herbie did a wonderful job of interpreting the material. Did a tremendous
amount of research. It is beautifully cohesive to me.

jeff

[kadeemusic]

Originally Posted by hanuman

After reading about the first 80 replies I wondered why nobody mentioned the fact that Amy Winehouse was not allowed to come....
I do not know her that well, but from a world's persective one can say that it is safer to have have a 'drunk' musician flying in the US then flying a 'murderer' into EU

If I'm not mistaken, she actually is in rehab at the moment (ironically). I'm guessing they let her out for one night to do the Grammy performance, but she couldn't be at the actual Grammies, due to her treatment.

[sada10]

I think she has been working at her craft and doing a lot of vocal training.

The question that I have is, can Kanye West really be that freaking arrogant; I'm almost thinking that it is an act, because nobody can be that obnoxiusly arrogant.

Originally Posted by PT User

I have heard so many people say that Fergie couldnt sing. I felt she did a great job with only a piano accompanying her. Im not a fan just felt she vendicated herself based on all the negative I heard about her singing on this site.


Brad Paisley performance was just how it sounds on the record. Its funny, I know country music isnt very popular on this site but there is never any questions about country singers talents and their singing abilities. Just a thought.


Peace
Eddie

[djwayne]

I heard that Amy was having problems getting a Visa, and at first they wouldn't give it to her, so they set up the live broadcast from England, then the Visa people okay'ed the Visa, but plans were already made and it was too late to change all the logistics, so she stayed in England.

[kadeemusic]

Originally Posted by sada10

I think she has been working at her craft and doing a lot of vocal training.

The question that I have is, can Kanye West really be that freaking arrogant; I'm almost thinking that it is an act, because nobody can be that obnoxiusly arrogant.

He's a rapper. Braggadocio, self-hype, and shameless self-promotion are the name of the game in hip-hop/rap. Humility is not.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by jmarkham

I think Herbie did a wonderful job of interpreting the material. Did a tremendous
amount of research. It is beautifully cohesive to me.

jeff

Fair enough ... I'll check it out at some point. Thanks,

[thedoner]

"I just got an award given to me by a Beatle. Have you had that happen yet, Kanye?"
I laughed my ass off. Definitely the highlight of the show.
The show was ok, Nothing spectacular. I thought the best performances were Fiest and (despite the hype) Amy Winehouse, she has really a cool character to her voice. Oh Yeah...Little Richard and John Forgerty were great too.
-G

[loopy]

Originally Posted by Dyer Maker

I can not figure out Kanye. I keep trying to figure out what it is people see in him and where that bizarre ego comes from. He is not a good dancer, he has no rhythm and can not sing well. Little Richard is 75 and he wiped the floor with Kanye.

Same here.
Little Richard and Paul Simon are still going after all these years.
Let's see where Kanye is in 30 years.
My guess is the same place as "Men At Work" and "A Flock of Seagulls".

[Brent Hahn]

Was Amy Winehouse minus a bass player?

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Funk Dracula

Aretha Franklin; No 300+ pound woman over the age of 65 should be wearing a shoulder free, cleavage showing chicken chick yellow dress, singing about jesus on national television; except for comedic purposes.

Honestly, I was thinking "please no costume malfunction" the whole time.

Slap me someone.

[Stephen B.]

Originally Posted by DRC

You don't think that there are 500 hungry people in any major American city that can do what Kanye does? I'm not just talking about knowledge. I do think that understanding the language of music offers more tools but that's not really what I was getting at so much.

Arranging harmony, on top of the guitar voicings, on top of those melodies, on top of those lyrics is what makes Paul Simon so talented. I'm not even a fan of his newer stuff and much as the S&G stuff either but it isn't without merit.

I mean how much of what goes into a Kanye West tune comes from him? The programming, the stealing (borrowing) of samples, the recording of any actual playing that goes on and who wrote the charts for the players? If it's his song, I would think that he would have all the parts worked out and notated.

I get it. He writes rhymes that some people dig. But does he sing? I mean really sing. Would you really call him a singer? Did he work out those tunes at the piano in his estate? He may be entertaining and all, but would you really say he is more talented than a guy who's tunes have embedded themselves in my head for hours?

More talented than a true songwriter? A true musician? It's a little hard to find respect for guys like Kanye and Jay-Z. How well would they do if no one had a TV?

Maybe you misunderstood me. I said Paul Simon is more knowledgeable and more talented than Kanye. I like Paul Simon THIS MUCH, I like Kanye this much. I agree that understanding the language of music is invaluable--that's why I got a degree in it--but there has been a hell of a lot of amazing music made by people who don't have the foggiest clue what they're doing.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by kadeemusic

That zinger Vince Gill gave Kanye was pretty amusing and perhaps deserved, although to be fair, Kanye was in the middle of a dedication to his mom.

For the past two years? Oh come on.

What was his excuse for getting up on stage last time and complaining that he didn't win? His mom was still alive then.

[Chunky Karma]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadeemusic
That zinger Vince Gill gave Kanye was pretty amusing and perhaps deserved, although to be fair, Kanye was in the middle of a dedication to his mom.


He was in the audience when Vince made his comment:
YouTube - Vince Gill & Usher take shots @ Kanye West

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by BrianT

Yeah, stupid or not, Paisley has to get points for making "I'd like to check you for ticks" as the payoff line in a love song.

I mean, what babe could resist such romance?

You think he was singing to Beyonce?

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Infernal Device

I have to agree 100%. It was difficult and uneasy to watch. No wonder cd sales are down.

I enjoyed the whole show.

Kanye's got cool glasses.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by cl516

PS: and what was the point of Alicia Keys playing that synth for all of a few notes? the one alone out near the crowd...

Security blanket. It wasn't even plugged in.

[Jack P]

Originally Posted by rlsoundsystem

since this IS gearslutz.....

when i am in the kitchen and the tv is on in the background i would never expect to look up and see daft punk rockin 4(!) lemurs.

i don't have the kanye album, thought it was weird he sampled a sampled song, agree about the ego....blah blah blah....

2 robots + 4 lemurs on national tv is pretty bad ass to me!

The Daft Punk parts he sampled were their vocals vocodered not a sample...

[kadeemusic]

Originally Posted by Chunky Karma

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadeemusic
That zinger Vince Gill gave Kanye was pretty amusing and perhaps deserved, although to be fair, Kanye was in the middle of a dedication to his mom.


He was in the audience when Vince made his comment:
YouTube - Vince Gill & Usher take shots @ Kanye West

I was referring to the moment when they started the "cut to commercial" music as Kanye was about to say a few words about his mom, so Kanye's reaction in that particular instance was somewhat justified. I agree that someone did need to knock him down a peg or two; glad Vince gill had the balls to do it.

I'm not a fan of Kanye's arrogance and his cockiness (or his music, for that matter), and I agree he could've exercised a little more humility for the Grammies. But he certainly isn't the only one; that sort of behavior seems to be pretty typical among rappers.

[kadeemusic]

Originally Posted by cl516

PS: and what was the point of Alicia Keys playing that synth for all of a few notes? the one alone out near the crowd...

Well, she's "Keys", so she's gotta be seen playing a keyboard, right? Though it didn't sound like she was really playing anything.

Actually, I kept wishing she'd actually play the piano more, rather than covorting about the stage. It seemed to be more of a prop than anything. Maybe this was just orchestrated for the cameras, but I'm always more a fan of musicians actually playing instruments. Especially since she can play.

At least we got some good live musicianship from John Mayer, and Brad Paisley (as downright stupid as that song was). That piano duet between Hancock and that other dude was pretty impressive too.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by BrianT

I feel compelled to defend youth. It's what keeps music relevant.

Me too. Unfortunately, for me this show just seemed OLD. Even the young acts were doing old things. Why make Fergie into a lounge singer? Alicia Keyes and Sinatra? I was totally unmoved. What's with all the recycled Beatles? You hear all that crap on commercials now. It's not new, it's not young. And let that kid play a little more than a minute's worth of piano, how bout it?

And what are we left with? American Idol winners, Foo Fighters and Kanye West? Foo Fighters? And who was that dick introducing the bogus play-with-the-foo-fighters contest. And what did the winner get to do? Embarrassingly lame. As if John Paul Jones waving the baton meant anything.

As for youth, thank God for Amy Winehouse and Lang Lang.

Good gawd, Little Richard hasn't changed a bit since I remember being scared seeing him on tv in the early '60s.

All in all I thought the show was overproduced, crammed in too much, and was long on glitz and sort on substance, despite some standout moments. It seemed very Vegas, which may be where music is all heading anyway.

-R

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Was Amy Winehouse minus a bass player?

The bass on the mix I heard just about blew the cones out of my speakers when "I'm No Good" started.

I didn't pay enough attention to actually see a bass player, but there was lots of (too much) bass. Might have been a network feed issue, but it was thick.

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by kadeemusic

He's a rapper. Braggadocio, self-hype, and shameless self-promotion are the name of the game in hip-hop/rap. Humility is not.

Actually, that's no longer universally true. Kanye's just a self-absorbed asshole.

-R