The perils of remote recording...

[XLR2XLR]

I am a budding remotester, I have been engineering for quite a while in professional capacity but I see myself still as a newcomer to remoting.

I have recorded some gigs recently very simple desk FOH stereo out and audience mics. Whilst sitting and watching the gigs proceed I have been thinking (as well as looking at meters etc.!) a lot.

These thoughts came up.....

1)Why would anyone other than for expense not use 100pct starquad on all audio cabling when remote recording?

There is simply so much to go wrong, whilst recording, the vocalists mic was coming in and out to which the FOH engineer suggesed she was losing her voice, I was wondering why I was hearing mainly wetvreverb return myself. Anyway

2)I cannot believe the size of the spaces I have had to inhabit, it;s back breaking workl luggin gear about but then to find you have to wire up (and my set up is
fairly small right now, HD24 / FR2LE (I know the HD24 is overkill for 4 tracks but thats what I have) a small UPS, cabling and a few mics and clamps a spares box etc. I had to wire up in a ridiculous sized space often adjacent to the main console
talk about having to be a contortionist to wire up !

I have also found that some venues are really not friendly for rigging audience mics, one I was at had a flat ceiling with zero mounting capability making it an impossibility to safely suspend cables.

I also had a very perculiar experience with my FR2LE which turned itself off when I had my mobile phone near it ! (it was faultless during the performance though)

As a one man act I have had to reconsider some things.

I was initially offerred a set of RCA phono's whcih buzzed like hell draped in front
of a CRT monitor, I rejected them and said I would prefer XLR's please from a bus which were much quieter.

Also I wanted to ensure that I was isolated from the FOH and used line transformers in between me and the FOH desk, I felt quite pro doing this, I also now realize that if I am to remain pro I need another 24 transformers to do direct outputs in a technically safe and professional manner.

Also with direct outs, how to expain to client , "well it wasn't me who set the gates attack too slow, clipping a the kick drum attack off !" It's a bit of a gamble if it isn't mic splits from the outset.

I also wondered about venue cabling, is this a no no to use when recording?
afterall if the cables are crap and a mic cuts out then you are shot, should I supply every stage cable too, tested and made by myself?

I am learning a lot and fast about what is the real deal and what isn't, more fool anyone who does remoting without having a very very long think about what can happen and what you are responsible for before going out and recording a gig.

The sheer quantrity of cabling I might have to move around on my own is already making my back hurt, where's the Deep Heat?

Any thoughts and experiences to share, top tips?

[Barnabas]

Welcome to Remoteland!

I have, on occasion, used the direct outputs of the live board for recording, but now I do that only if I'm also doing the live mix. Not all boards have direct outs on each channel. Not all work the same. Using the inserts can be tricky if the inserts are used for effects.

Get a transformer-isolated splitter snake and split the mic lines between you and the live console. You can insert the splitter backstage, or at the FOH mix location. This of course means that you need your own preamps,. And you need more cash to buy all this extra gear.

As for venue cabling, I'm always ready to substitute my own cables and mics for the sake of the recording. Sometimes the live guy would rather use his own mic or mic placement for live sound. Sometimes feedback issues forces the live sound to mic closer than I want to record. Many times instruments are double-miced, one mic for the live mix and one mic for recording.

It's hard to double mic a singer, so compromises have to be made. The worst is when the singer insists on using a wireless mic. That's when you need to know who is really in charge of the recording (like a producer) and keep them informed of the compromises that are being made.

[XLR2XLR]

Ultimately I guess it comes down to budget, not everyone who wants recordings have the budget for full mic splits and pre's to twin recorders and not all engineers
have the budget/gear to supply that service.

The direct output scenario is the compromise between sound quality and
budget I think, though it's limitations need to be clearly explained so the engineer
accepting these direct output feeds does not end up with egg on his face.

What is for sure is that it seems a lot more complex in reality and practicality than the theorizing of recording systems on paper.

A very important and obvious aspect is the sheer amount of mains cabling, RF swamping and lighting gear there is to potentially destroy the recording through hums buzzes and other electronically generated noise. (that's before the dodgy guitar amps !) This is why I mention Starquad, it's akin to a TV studio.

Any further comments by remote recording pro's?

As it stands I own 28 channels of mic splits (+ 24 pre's) but I am not sure if I currently have the b*lls to buy a snake and all the cables and patch cables and go the full works (not yet anyway) It is incredibly hard work especially for an individual and that's just for the most basic of recordings if done right. (Rather than using 2 mult cables I plugged into a compressor(in bypass) which has 2 sets of outputs TRS and XLR and used these to split the signal to my recorders as 1 input was balanced and on my FR2LE the 1/4 is unbalanced.

Also how many people operate alone?

[DSD_Mastering]

This is also why I like MADI. A very small optical cable with no electrical interference and it will also carry clock and midi commands for a remote (Millennia) mic pre!

Regards,
Bruce

[LX3]

I agree with you - these days people want their gig multitracked, and to do that right means a multichannel splitter, preamps, recorders, the works. Much as I try to keep things compact and portable, I can't think of any practical half-way house unless you're in charge of FOH as well.

I still work on my own occasionally, but not as much as I used to. I have a couple of trusted engineers (and good friends) that I call on to assist. In fact, on some occasions I have a pretty famous engineer with me - at which point I think of it as me assisting him

I used to think that, on the small club/pub gigs, I would have to do the job solo to keep things affordable for the client. But I eventually came to the realisation that the smaller gigs are often more work than the bigger ones! (because I'm invariably bringing mics and stands to substitute for some of the indifferent stuff at the venue... which means I'm usually also setting them, which takes time). So if ever I need an assistant, it's at the small gigs... which defeats my attempts to keep small gigs affordable. If I don't bring an assistant, I still have to do the assistant's job... it's not like the workload goes down. So looked at that way, not bringing an assistant shouldn't make it any cheaper.

I've finally rationalised things in my brain and developed an outlook for the small gigs. And that is, I choose them carefully and don't worry about making much of a profit! It's either that or forget about the small shows altogether... because if I charged as much as I ought to, most unsigned artists would never be able to justify the outlay.

So these days I bring an assistant on the small gigs and take the hit financially. The novelty of carrying heaps of gear in and out of a venue wore off quite a while ago, so I'd rather lessen the workload than make a few extra bucks by doing it all myself.

The one thing I am considering is dropping a whole rack and monitor mixer by recording in Nuendo rather than on my HD24s. But that means flying without a safety, so I'm not comfortable with it on critical gigs.

Sorry, bit of a stream of consciousness there. Hope there's something useful in it.

[Barnabas]

I mostly operate alone, so everything is packaged so I can haul it up and down stairs by myself if needed. Many times I take along a high school intern for a non-paid experience. They get to haul the heavy stuff.

Check with your local high school and see if they have a TV class or technical theater class. Kids in those classes may be eager to get some practical experiences outside the classroom. My school system carries a $1 million liability insurance on their kids in job shadowing and internship experiences just in case anything gets broken or someone gets hurt.

Work-Based Learning at my local school system

Talk to the teacher and see if you can volunteer to come teach a lesson to the class. Even teaching the proper way to wrap cables can be a blessing to the schools, and a blessing to the industry.

[thedoner]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

Ultimately I guess it comes down to budget, not everyone who wants recordings have the budget for full mic splits and pre's to twin recorders and not all engineers
have the budget/gear to supply that service.

The direct output scenario is the compromise between sound quality and
budget I think, though it's limitations need to be clearly explained so the engineer
accepting these direct output feeds does not end up with egg on his face.

What is for sure is that it seems a lot more complex in reality and practicality than the theorizing of recording systems on paper.

A very important and obvious aspect is the sheer amount of mains cabling, RF swamping and lighting gear there is to potentially destroy the recording through hums buzzes and other electronically generated noise. (that's before the dodgy guitar amps !) This is why I mention Starquad, it's akin to a TV studio.

Any further comments by remote recording pro's?

As it stands I own 28 channels of mic splits (+ 24 pre's) but I am not sure if I currently have the b*lls to buy a snake and all the cables and patch cables and go the full works (not yet anyway) It is incredibly hard work especially for an individual and that's just for the most basic of recordings if done right. (Rather than using 2 mult cables I plugged into a compressor(in bypass) which has 2 sets of outputs TRS and XLR and used these to split the signal to my recorders as 1 input was balanced and on my FR2LE the 1/4 is unbalanced.

Also how many people operate alone?

Welcome XLR,

You're right. There is a great deal of information gathering and preparation that goes into doing a remote as well as putting together a rig. Search around this forum a bit and you'll get the answers to most of your questions... I'll just add these little tidbits...

1) As far as working solo goes, If you can shlep all your gear by yourself in one trip without injury then you might be OK, but as soon as you have to go anywhere where your rig/mics/cases etc are out of sight, you'll want the security (and peace of mind ) of a second set of eyes on the gear. Personally, I'll always hire an assistant because my stuff is too heavy, and too costly to replace. Not to mention all the other ways they can help you out at a gig...too many to mention.

2) Redundancy is key. If you want to consider yourself a pro, then you have to be running some sort of backup recorder. in your case, a second HD24 or a laptop-based DAW of your choosing should do the trick. Not running a backup is a mistake I've only made once, and will never make again.

3. As previously mentioned by other posters, taking direct outs from the FOH board is not ideal. What if during the set the FOH eng. changes his gain structure by cranking his pre's? Even if the direct outs are pre fader, your feed will be affected.
Again, if your serious, get a transformer isolated splitter. I have a Whirlwind with ground lifts on every channel, which has saved my ass more than once from the ubiquitous and deadly onstage buzz.

As you said, ultimately it come down to your budget, and whether you want to cross that line into doing serious multitrack work. It also requires looking at whether you think you can get a fair return on the gear investment it will take to get you there.
Good Luck,
-Gordon

[thedoner]

Originally Posted by Barnabas

Check with your local high school and see if they have a TV class or technical theater class. Kids in those classes may be eager to get some practical experiences outside the classroom. My school system carries a $1 million liability insurance on their kids in job shadowing and internship experiences just in case anything gets broken or someone gets hur

Audio schools are a good place to look for unpaid help as well.

[XLR2XLR]

A ha some further interesting points......

1)Money yes difficult to make every gig a business hit, true say, petrol, (Getting at venue for 3pm wasting the day before, wasting the day after cause YOU are wasted after getting in at 3AM) it all adds up, the stress of retrieval of gear with not a soul to help you and collecting your car and loading before they put the padlocks on, the expense of 4 hours of parking at £7.00
per hour, the stress of finding a place you have never been to before (Almost always in a mad one way street system !), the stress of the venue not knowing who the hell you are despite numerous contacts with your client and FOH engineer, having to lug 4KG of food and drink with you so you do not collapse with no energy, having to introduce yourself to security so they dont think you are walking out with their sound equipment at in the morning and this is something we choose to do !

I had a nightmare this weekend where the street the venue was in was cordonned off by the police, I had to walk 300m to my car, I was destroyed when I eventually loaded up.

Yes I ALWAYS run a back up I was only recording stereo desk out and had an HD24 (overkill) and a FR2LE
My HD24 is on a UPS too.

Thanks, remoting is not always fun fun fun!

[LX3]

Hey, XLR, I take it from your post you're working in London

Fun isn't it? I hear you about the one-way systems... so true. Miss the venue or turning and it can be half an hour before you can get to it again because you have to go on a huge loop through horrible traffic just to get back to where you were.

I often park when I know I'm somewhere near the venue, put the hazards on (!), and explore on foot so I don't make a mistake and overshoot the place.. or discover there's nowhere to park when I get there.

You weren't working in Camden over the weekend were you? What a crying shame.

[XLR2XLR]

Yes I was indeed, it was a nightmare, I felt like Rambo getting out of that place !

I have a car at the mo, no van and so I would have trouble leaving it
unattended too far from the venue.

With petrol(rightly or wrongly) currently at £1.05 per litre it costs me a bomb just to get to and from the places
(yes that right it is $2.06 per lite)

[0VU]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

Yes I was indeed, it was a nightmare, I felt like Rambo getting out of that place !

I have a car at the mo, no van and so I would have trouble leaving it
unattended too far from the venue.

With petrol(rightly or wrongly) currently at £1.05 per litre it costs me a bomb just to get to and from the places
(yes that right it is $2.06 per lite)

Or about $7.06ish / US gallon.