Little console or pre-amps

videoteque · 10th February 2008

I am preparing to make multicam recordings of live music (mainly jazz and classic) and my main job is the video part of it. I will need help in the audio department which I have already found, but if someone is interested I would examine any proposal, contact me.

But audio recording is a hobby I would like to develop, I bought a Fireface 800, Korg MR1000 and some mics and I enjoy it. I have always liked it!!!

So back to my multicam recordings, I would love to capture the audio in a "audiophile" (good) way, few mics, good and short cables, no patchbays, not 15 mics on a drumset, etc. etc.

I would like to use the FF800 for the recordings (unless the audio guy I find has something better) and I need preamps. I was thinking about the DAV BG8 (8 preamps in 1 RU) which costs 1800€ (+ vat) at KMR.

But one day reading Gearslutz I read about the Studer consoles, and about the 961. It's nice, it's made for location recording, it's european engineering at its best (??) and I thought I can use it to track and then to mix (to sum for the more moderns!). It costs more or less 2500€ for the 8 channels. But it weights 25 Kg!!!

The first problem (??) is the Studer has balanced inserts, but not direct outs. There seems to be a mod that can be done, but without soldering inside the console, do you think an Y cable can work it out??? Do I loose the "audiophile" quality by using an Y cable???

Anybody who can tell me their experiences with a Studer will sure help me!!!

So what would you do??

The intelligent answer is get a good audio guy, the sluts answer is buy both the Studer + DAV BG8 and then some Neve, GML, Millenia...

If you want to peep the Studer consoles specs: ftp://ftp.studer.ch/Public/Products/

tsvisser · 10th February 2008

not addressing the experience portion of your request, but the "what would i do"... mind you this is more of a fanciful exercise in my own imagination than really trying to help you...

1) do not use a computer as your only platform... live performances - classical / jazz, there are no second takes in the event of a catastrophic glitch or crash. maybe a computer and a dedicated recorder, such as a Zaxcom Deva, Fostex PD606, or linked Sound Devices 744t... etc... (anything with 8 tracks of AES input) these should be pretty easy to rent as needed. (these location recorders also let you write to an internal hard drive and CF media simultaneously for safety too)

2) my fanciful imaginary mic setup...
I'd actually use 3 sets of stereo mic setups...

first) ORTF using any of the usual suspects... Schoeps MK4g or wider MK21g

second) double M-S recording for surround mix (or future surround mix) centered around the Schoeps CMIT 5U and their recommended CCM 8Lg for side figure 8 and CCM 4Lg cardioid rear. you might not need surround, but it is a simple and compact setup, which at the very least, can be a good solid mono track to augment the ORTF mix, which can sometimes be too wide.

third) a closely placed pair of hemi boundary layer mics. I would like to experiment with the Neumann GFM 132's. why boundary layer? first they are super discrete, so no installation issues with respect to the performance, and they can have great even bass response. my main point with using this pair in the first place is to help augment to low end on either of the above setups, as mics positioned like this, especially the ORTF pair, can have poor bass sensitivity. ...to be able to mix in the low end if you need it.

3) so with my proposed mic arrays, there would be a total of 7 mics. for the back end, I'd use a single Grace Design m802 with the A/D option card, being able to feed up to 2 sets of AES/EBU feeds to your recorder / computer. using the optional remote control, you'd have complete control over the whole setup and you could keep all your mic cables as short as possible with the m802 located right there with the mics. mixing capability would only be there for monitoring purposes, everything would just be tracked hot to the recorder and once you set your levels, your pretty much done for the night.

videoteque · 10th February 2008

A sort of backup is to use the Korg MR1000 on batteries to record a main stereo. Then rec the other mics multitracked to the FF800. In the worst scenario, I always have a stereo.

I was also thinking about sourround and hidden mics, didn't want to ask everything in the same thread, but anybody who can give their POV about sourround, hidden mics, live audio recording when there are people with camcorders arround...

videoteque · 11th February 2008

Little bump!

Could someone explain me a method to use the balanced inserts as a balanced direct out, but also returning into the mixer so I can rec the stereo mix??

Thanks!

10th February 2008	#1
videoteque Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Near Rome, Italy Posts: 829 Thread Starter	Little console or pre-amps I am preparing to make multicam recordings of live music (mainly jazz and classic) and my main job is the video part of it. I will need help in the audio department which I have already found, but if someone is interested I would examine any proposal, contact me. But audio recording is a hobby I would like to develop, I bought a Fireface 800, Korg MR1000 and some mics and I enjoy it. I have always liked it!!! So back to my multicam recordings, I would love to capture the audio in a "audiophile" (good) way, few mics, good and short cables, no patchbays, not 15 mics on a drumset, etc. etc. I would like to use the FF800 for the recordings (unless the audio guy I find has something better) and I need preamps. I was thinking about the DAV BG8 (8 preamps in 1 RU) which costs 1800€ (+ vat) at KMR. But one day reading Gearslutz I read about the Studer consoles, and about the 961. It's nice, it's made for location recording, it's european engineering at its best (??) and I thought I can use it to track and then to mix (to sum for the more moderns!). It costs more or less 2500€ for the 8 channels. But it weights 25 Kg!!! The first problem (??) is the Studer has balanced inserts, but not direct outs. There seems to be a mod that can be done, but without soldering inside the console, do you think an Y cable can work it out??? Do I loose the "audiophile" quality by using an Y cable??? Anybody who can tell me their experiences with a Studer will sure help me!!! So what would you do?? The intelligent answer is get a good audio guy, the sluts answer is buy both the Studer + DAV BG8 and then some Neve, GML, Millenia... If you want to peep the Studer consoles specs: ftp://ftp.studer.ch/Public/Products/

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10th February 2008	#2
tsvisser Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2007 Location: Honolulu HI Posts: 1,852	not addressing the experience portion of your request, but the "what would i do"... mind you this is more of a fanciful exercise in my own imagination than really trying to help you... 1) do not use a computer as your only platform... live performances - classical / jazz, there are no second takes in the event of a catastrophic glitch or crash. maybe a computer and a dedicated recorder, such as a Zaxcom Deva, Fostex PD606, or linked Sound Devices 744t... etc... (anything with 8 tracks of AES input) these should be pretty easy to rent as needed. (these location recorders also let you write to an internal hard drive and CF media simultaneously for safety too) 2) my fanciful imaginary mic setup... I'd actually use 3 sets of stereo mic setups... first) ORTF using any of the usual suspects... Schoeps MK4g or wider MK21g second) double M-S recording for surround mix (or future surround mix) centered around the Schoeps CMIT 5U and their recommended CCM 8Lg for side figure 8 and CCM 4Lg cardioid rear. you might not need surround, but it is a simple and compact setup, which at the very least, can be a good solid mono track to augment the ORTF mix, which can sometimes be too wide. third) a closely placed pair of hemi boundary layer mics. I would like to experiment with the Neumann GFM 132's. why boundary layer? first they are super discrete, so no installation issues with respect to the performance, and they can have great even bass response. my main point with using this pair in the first place is to help augment to low end on either of the above setups, as mics positioned like this, especially the ORTF pair, can have poor bass sensitivity. ...to be able to mix in the low end if you need it. 3) so with my proposed mic arrays, there would be a total of 7 mics. for the back end, I'd use a single Grace Design m802 with the A/D option card, being able to feed up to 2 sets of AES/EBU feeds to your recorder / computer. using the optional remote control, you'd have complete control over the whole setup and you could keep all your mic cables as short as possible with the m802 located right there with the mics. mixing capability would only be there for monitoring purposes, everything would just be tracked hot to the recorder and once you set your levels, your pretty much done for the night.

11th February 2008	#4
videoteque Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Near Rome, Italy Posts: 829 Thread Starter	Little bump! Could someone explain me a method to use the balanced inserts as a balanced direct out, but also returning into the mixer so I can rec the stereo mix?? Thanks!