Soul strings!

[Joemamma]

I'm looking for advice on recording and producing good string sections for soul type music.

I need advice on how many string instruments (violin, viola, cello, bass) to use and how to record them and overdub them.

With the resources I have I think I'll be able to get 4-6 string players in the studio with a composer I know.

Production wise:
I've been listening to songs like Marvin Gaye "What's Going On", and to me it sounds like the strings often play in unison. And in this song I only think I hear violins and violas.
Is this a common thing for soul strings? Do I not need cellos or basses?
Also, it sounds like there are a lot of strings playing together. If I have 5 strings, for example, I'll be able to make it sound like 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. by overdubbing them. How many string voices would you recommend that I record in order to get a nice warm string sound?

Engineering wise:
I think I'm gonna semi-close mic the individual instruments (a couple feet away?). But I'll also put a pair or two further away for different ambience sounds. Does this sound okay?
Mic wise I think I'll be using mostly condensers. For the close mics I'll probably use cardioid mics and for the room mics I'll probably use cardioid or omnidirectional mics. How does this sound?
Are there any specific mics you would recommend for strings or room mics? LDC, SDC, other? Any specific placements?
Should I compress a bit during tracking? Any other processing?

Any ideas/feedback is welcome!
Thanks in advance!

[Bob Olhsson]

"What's Going On" was 9 violins, 4 violas and 3 cellos doubled. We undermixed the violas just a tad to balance it out better.

The violins and violas were recorded to one track with a bit of 7.5 ips delayed, live chamber added and the 3 cello mikes were recorded to a second track with an EMT driven by the other side of the same 7.5 ips 2 track Scully. Both echo sends were also high-passed at 150Hz.

More reverb was added in the mixes.

It was a great session, Marvin broke down in tears when the strings came in.

[brill bedroom]

I might suggest that if you want to hear some really cool arrangements, you checkout Thom Bell's work in Philadelphia in the early 70's. There's an album by an obscure Philly soul band called New York City that should give you some really cool ideas of how to add strings to a soul tune without it smoothing things out. See also Delfonics, Chi Lites, O'Jays, Main Ingredient.

[stevelindsay]

Man, that is why I LOVE GS, when a guy like Bob Olhsson chimes in generously with recording details from a classic Marvin Gaye session! Thumbs up to you, Bob, for the info!!

[Football]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

"What's Going On" was 9 violins, 4 violas and 3 cellos doubled. We undermixed the violas just a tad to balance it out better.

The violins and violas were recorded to one track with a bit of 7.5 ips delayed, live chamber added and the 3 cello mikes were recorded to a second track with an EMT driven by the other side of the same 7.5 ips 2 track Scully. Both echo sends were also high-passed at 150Hz.

More reverb was added in the mixes.

It was a great session, Marvin broke down in tears when the strings came in.

Anything cooler than this? Not really... not really.

[shuld]

Hey Bob,
What studio were the strings recorded in?
Thanx so much for the info.

[Bounce]

Originally Posted by Football

Anything cooler than this? Not really... not really.

No kidding.

[snüzz]

"What's Going On" was 9 violins, 4 violas and 3 cellos doubled. We undermixed the violas just a tad to balance it out better.

The violins and violas were recorded to one track with a bit of 7.5 ips delayed, live chamber added and the 3 cello mikes were recorded to a second track with an EMT driven by the other side of the same 7.5 ips 2 track Scully. Both echo sends were also high-passed at 150Hz.

More reverb was added in the mixes.

It was a great session, Marvin broke down in tears when the strings came in.

this is why i love GS.

[Bob Olhsson]

The strings were recorded at Motown's Davison Avenue studio which had originally been built for Golden World Records.

Here are a few more technical details.

The microphones were all Neumann KM-86s. One over the heads of the 4 first violins, one for the 4 second violins, one for the concertmaster, one for the four violas and one on each of the three cellos. The high strings were recorded flat. Each cello mike had a 2 dB. boost at 100 Hz. and +2 dB at 5.6kHz. (I remember the settings because I recorded a lot of string sessions the very same way.)

The console was custom built using Altec preamplifiers and Neumann equalizers. The tape machine was one of the first ten 16 tracks ever built, an Ampex MM-1000.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by stevelindsay

Man, that is why I LOVE GS, when a guy like Bob Olhsson chimes in generously with recording details from a classic Marvin Gaye session! Thumbs up to you, Bob, for the info!!

Agreed!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[MtownMan87]

Amazing info Bob. Were you around for the strings on Just My Imagination?

[Bob Olhsson]

Sure. That one was amazing because Norman only had one track open for strings, horns and tympani.

[DeadPoet]

5star thread! thumbsup


Since we're on it.. what's your typical over head height on the strings? 3ft/1m, more or less?



Herwig

[Chucho]

Originally Posted by stevelindsay

Man, that is why I LOVE GS, when a guy like Bob Olhsson chimes in generously with recording details from a classic Marvin Gaye session! Thumbs up to you, Bob, for the info!!

excellent stuff

[Joemamma]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

"What's Going On" was 9 violins, 4 violas and 3 cellos doubled. We undermixed the violas just a tad to balance it out better.

The violins and violas were recorded to one track with a bit of 7.5 ips delayed, live chamber added and the 3 cello mikes were recorded to a second track with an EMT driven by the other side of the same 7.5 ips 2 track Scully. Both echo sends were also high-passed at 150Hz.

More reverb was added in the mixes.

It was a great session, Marvin broke down in tears when the strings came in.

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

The strings were recorded at Motown's Davison Avenue studio which had originally been built for Golden World Records.

Here are a few more technical details.

The microphones were all Neumann KM-86s. One over the heads of the 4 first violins, one for the 4 second violins, one for the concertmaster, one for the four violas and one on each of the three cellos. The high strings were recorded flat. Each cello mike had a 2 dB. boost at 100 Hz. and +2 dB at 5.6kHz. (I remember the settings because I recorded a lot of string sessions the very same way.)

The console was custom built using Altec preamplifiers and Neumann equalizers. The tape machine was one of the first ten 16 tracks ever built, an Ampex MM-1000.

Thanks so much Bob! Nothing beats first hand accounts like this!

Like someone else asked, I'd like to know how far away you place the mics over the strings?

Also, were the musicians sitting close to each other, or did you try to separate them a bit in the room? And how big was the room(s) you recorded in?

[Mgr]

Originally Posted by stevelindsay

Man, that is why I LOVE GS, when a guy like Bob Olhsson chimes in generously with recording details from a classic Marvin Gaye session! Thumbs up to you, Bob, for the info!!

Amazing

[TheRealRoach]

Wow great to know. Wish I had read this last year when I was doing a similar project to the original poster. Would've certainly saved some time in the setup!

(I think I ended up using a U87 about 3-5 feet up and somewhere directly over the violin or the players head.)

[Dan]

One of the coolest threads in a long time. Thanks Bob!

[Bob Olhsson]

The mikes were maybe 4 feet above each group of players' heads with them seated two in front and two behind. The mike looked at the backs of the front desk players and the front of the back desk players. Cal Harris taught us that setup based his experience working at Western Recorders and Gold Star in LA.

Cal and Joe Atkinson from Atlantic Records in New York gave me a crash course in studio recording and then kicked me out of my little nerd's cave in the mastering room. Being a painfully shy but brutally honest recording engineer has made for an odd life but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Lipps]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

"What's Going On" was 9 violins, 4 violas and 3 cellos doubled. We undermixed the violas just a tad to balance it out better.

The violins and violas were recorded to one track with a bit of 7.5 ips delayed, live chamber added and the 3 cello mikes were recorded to a second track with an EMT driven by the other side of the same 7.5 ips 2 track Scully. Both echo sends were also high-passed at 150Hz.

More reverb was added in the mixes.

It was a great session, Marvin broke down in tears when the strings came in.

This is why I come to GS. I love it!

[Ken Lewis]

Originally Posted by Joemamma

I'm looking for advice on recording and producing good string sections for soul type music.

Since your looking for advice on producing soul strings, my first advice as a producer would be to hire a great soul arranger. Someone mentioned Thom Bell who, at least several years ago was still available. I recorded and mixed the David Byrne album "Look Into The Eyeball" and we brought in Thom Bell to do 2 arrangements (one song is "Neighborhood") i cant remember the other. Thom was great and it felt like stepping into a time warp. We had a great section of string players, which helps, but Thom wrote a great arrangement and conducted them. David Byrne was smiling ear to ear listening to them play.

Rob Mathes is also really top notch at soul. Have used him on Mariah Carey and Lenny Kravitz, and he's done alot of hip hop string sections as well as every other musical style imaginable. And i hear he just produced the new Panic at the Disco album. incredible musician as well. Get the right arranger and the right players and everything else usually takes care of itself. And you might wanna hire Bob Olhsson to record it!!!

WOW! his posts are some of the coolest i've ever read on here. Bob, you are my new idol.

[Joemamma]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Since your looking for advice on producing soul strings, my first advice as a producer would be to hire a great soul arranger.

He's already hired! Check out MySpace.com - HighHouse Productions - Copenhagen - Neo-soul / Hip Hop / Acoustic - www.myspace.com/highhouseproductions
A qualified string arranger and composer will be joining in as well.

[Bob Olhsson]

Just hire a great arranger. The "soul" will come from your ideas for string lines. Many of the greatest have been brass players. They think in counterpoint and know how to count rests!

You also need truly great string players because they are the only ones who can afford great sounding instruments.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

Since your looking for advice on producing soul strings, my first advice as a producer would be to hire a great soul arranger. Someone mentioned Thom Bell who, at least several years ago was still available. I recorded and mixed the David Byrne album "Look Into The Eyeball" and we brought in Thom Bell to do 2 arrangements (one song is "Neighborhood") i cant remember the other. Thom was great and it felt like stepping into a time warp. We had a great section of string players, which helps, but Thom wrote a great arrangement and conducted them. David Byrne was smiling ear to ear listening to them play.

Rob Mathes is also really top notch at soul. Have used him on Mariah Carey and Lenny Kravitz, and he's done alot of hip hop string sections as well as every other musical style imaginable. And i hear he just produced the new Panic at the Disco album. incredible musician as well. Get the right arranger and the right players and everything else usually takes care of itself. And you might wanna hire Bob Olhsson to record it!!!

WOW! his posts are some of the coolest i've ever read on here. Bob, you are my new idol.

I worked with thom great guy.. all the philly sound arrangers were, bobby martin, dexter wansel, jack faith, vince montana, etc etc

[SyncSailor]

I hear that Vienna Symphonic Library is releasing "Love Unlimeted Orchestra vol 1" this summer. just kidding... but wouldn't that be cool.

[Joemamma]

Originally Posted by Joemamma

Should I compress a bit during tracking? Any other processing?

Any thoughts on these questions?

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Joemamma

Any thoughts on these questions?

rides are better than compression.. if you do compress hit no more than 3 dB

the opposite of the motown strings were the philly sound strings ..tight miked with bite..they were more rytmic precussive parts that airy mowtown..the srings were miked about 2.5/3 feet from the deck..[top of vln body]

when i did the standing in the shadows strings i flew them high to try to get that sound..with the new studio 1 with lower ceiling and no starbirds it was close but no ceegar ..

[Sigma]

a "clean" string set up..tons of wires nowhere to be stepped on

[tonymite]

thumbsup

[MBishopSFX]

I used to record some of the string tracks for O'Jays (and related) projects in the 70s at both Cleveland Recording Company and a bit later at Suma Recording. Both had (still has in the case of Suma) nice live rooms. They often had members of the Cleveland Orchestra strings on those sessions, but only players that could actually "swing." Usually four violins, four viola, 2 or 3 celli. Typical mic-ing might have been (2) km-56 or 58 on violins, (2) u-67s on violas and (1) or (2) u-47s on celli. Depending on available tracks, we'd do a stereo first pass and then a mono double or triple pass, but with the mic-to-instrument distance almost doubled on the second and/or third pass. We'd also have the musicians switch their seating around so we wouldn't get the flim-flam of doubling/tripling in the sound. The seat-switching and mic distance changes sweetened the string tracks nicely. If we mixed with any reverb, it'd be an EMT 140 with vari-speed tape delay (Ampex 350) depending on the tempo of the tune.


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