Portable digital recorder for collecting sound FX

[soundboy]

I want to start collecting my own SFX and I need to get a recorder to do it. My Marantz PMD? cassette recorder is probably ready for the Smithsonian, and my Sony mini Dat recorder has bitten the dust. So I'm looking at the Zoom portable digital recorder. Any one have any experience with it?

[AdHawk]

....I need to record some FX myself, mainly ambiences, not any close-miked heavy stuff.

I´m curious to know if anyone has any experience with Zoom, Edirol or any other portable, battery-powered recorder with built in microphones.

Since I want to record mainly ambiences, the stereo imaging is important to me, and I guess build-quality is also fairly important.

Any thoughts on this is greatly appreciated.

[JesseJ]

Here's a review of the Zoom H2:

Exclusive First Look: Zoom H2 Portable Recorder - Zoom H2 Review - Zoom H4

Looks quite interesting... but I am too interested in hearing a pro say something about these... It's dirt cheap, but how is the sound quality, and how is the battery life?

[Roland]

Sound devices 744T is very popular these days, 4 channel recorder with timecode, depending what you are recording with you could get a full surround signal with this.

Regards


Roland

[AdHawk]

I guess the built-in microphones is the most important part of the sound quality question.
How are they in the H4?

[introvert]

A friend in Chicago has the Zoom H4 and loves it. He swears it sounds great, although I haven't heard anything from it.

Another fantastic option is the Sony PCMD1. I borrowed one from a colleague for a record in November and was quite happy with the results. It sounded very impressive for a pair of built-in Sony mics.

If you're sticking with built in mics, those are the best suggestions I can offer. If you're willing to go other routes...

The Sound Devices 744T is a great box. One of my coworkers has it and it sounds great. Another option is the M-Audio Microtrack, which doesn't sound fantastic on its own, but with a better front end (Apogee MiniMe for example) is a great little digital recorder.

[minister]

Originally Posted by Roland

Sound devices 744T is very popular these days...

and with VERY GOOD reason!

chuckles, consider, the Sound Devices 702...it is cheaper! reason being, no hard drive. the compact flash media is coming down in price. the thing is built like the most beautiful high-tech tank. those guys at SD **really** know what the 'F' they are doing. the unit is so well thought out and the pre's sound excellent. one button record, with a buffer so you don't miss anything. you can't believe how light and small it is. plug in with FW cable and drag and drop files into PT. i can't recommend it enough.

prices are fairly fixed on these, so, i am going to recommend that, whatever you do, call Buzz at Turner Audio TURNER AUDIO WEBSITE GREAT guy! incredible service. knowledgeable, will even give you a 'buyer's remorse' return policy, no re-stocking fees, unless you keep the stockings. you can always call and just talk to him. he'll set you up with mics, cables, bags, whatever. highly recommend him.

as to the Zoom, it looks really cool as does the micro tracker. it all depends on what you do and how much dough you want to spend.

[soundboy]

$1800 is a far cry from the $300 for the Zoom unit. I was interested in the zoom because it has two xlr inputs for external mics. Of course if it sounds like c**p then who cares? Not yet ready to plunk down $1800 to collect SFX yet. Too many other studio expenses to think about before that. Like a DNS 1000!

[minister]

Originally Posted by soundboy

$1800 is a far cry from the $300 for the Zoom unit.

that's why i said, depending on what you want to do and what you want to spend...

Originally Posted by soundboy

Too many other studio expenses to think about before that. Like a DNS 1000!

Charles, the DNS 2000 has 2 channels and lower latency....

(just so you know, i eschew smilies)

[brucie]

Hi there

Along with the Zoom, you might want to check out the Edirol R09. Although with this unit you may need to buy a seperate preamp for you mics as it doesn't have an XLR input, only mini jack. Moving up, but not as far as the sound devices, there are two mid range units which are very good. These are the Fostex Fr-2 and the Tascam HD-P2 units, both of these are around $800 I think (I am in the UK sorry!).

Also Fostex are about to launch an FR-2LE version of the FR-2 which might be worth a look...it is around the same level as the Zoom

All the best

Neil

[starcrash13]

A mini CF recorder like the MicroTrack or Zoom is great to have regardless of what other gear you may end up buying. I use my MicroTrack at restaurants and other occasions where a bulky and/ or expensive recorder might be inappropriate.

The problem with these little boxes is the noisy preamps. I don't claim to have "super fancy" ears, but the noise from my MicroTrack is very noticeable on quiet recordings. It's a bit of a high-pitched whine.

So, at the end of the day, you can spend $300-400 for noisy pres or you can spend $1850 for a really killer piece of gear that you'll have for years. CF cards are getting really cheap and apparently there's a new firmware update for the 702 that will allow you to record to an external firewire drive.

Buy both!!

[minister]

Originally Posted by starcrash13

Buy both!!

YES!

or stop posting on GEARSLUTZ!

[philper]

I've used a friend's Zoom recorder, and wasn't impressed. As noisy as all these mini recorders are, too fiddly with the menus to be a quick-draw recorder, to large to be a true pocket recoder. A recorder like this having XLR inputs is beside the point--if you are going to bother with external mics then you can record on something higher fi and more trouble (702, Tascam P2, a computer rig etc). These recorders shine the most as fast hassle free recorders via their internal mics. So far the best I've used is the Edirol R09, for size and
speed. Sound wise they are all about the same, to my ears. (Microtrak, R09, Zoom).

Philip Perkins

[smsjr]

744 is a great recorder. Like Tom said, these things are built so nicely, they are worth their weight in gold. I got a new case for mine so that I can travel a little more lightly then I was with a larger Portabrace I priginally had it in. The combination of the 744 with an AT825 has worked out well for gathering ambiences amd other stereo recordings. I'd like to add to my mic collection, possibly a Sanken or some of the other mics that have been recommended to me by the highly experienced recordists on this site and others. As far as recording ambiences go, I read the article with Bernie Krause in which he praises the Sennheisers due to their low noise floors. Interesting read if you get a chance. http://emusician.com/em_spotlight/be...iew/index.html

Personally, I really dislike the sound of the Microtrack, and if others in that price range sound like that, then they leave a lot to be desired. I understand they are budget recorders, but still, if you really want to get high level sounds, you'll probably have to throw in some frontend, and then their main benefit (stealth) becomes less of an advantage. Having said that, if you are on a budget (most of us are), they might be good enough for some things as long as you know the limitations.

For recording stereo effects, all you need is the SD 702. It is a decent amount of cash, but I don't think you'll regret spending it.

Steve

[niteflite]

Have to echo many of the comments above.

I've had the Sony PCM-1 for the past couple of years and love it but it's priced closer to $1800 than to $300.

The mics (x/y config) are actually very decent IMO.

I've used the unit in extreme conditions such as the humid jungle without incident.

Build quality is excellent (titanium shell) battery life good (takes disposables too).

I love the sound devices but look carefully at the differences between the 702 and 744. I believe you can add 2 xtrnal pres with the 744 (and there's timecode etc for video).

I can't recommend the Microtrack based on sound quality though I don't have too much experience with it.

Based on what folks have told me the Ed. R-09 seems like the best value compromise for a low cost unit.

As said above, I'd spend more for quiet pre's if you can somehow swing it.

Enjoy the field.

[smsjr]

There is quite a difference between the 702 and 744, but the price is also quite different. For those who only need the 2 channels and not timecode,the 702 is a hell of a machine. What I love about the 744 is all of the flexibility. 4 Channels is nice. Record effects or take it on a film set and lock to code. But the price tag is steep.

Good to hear that the Sony and the Edirol are decent. The reviews I read said similar things. I'm interested to hear more about the Edirol because at that price, if the quality is really good and the mics are really good, then it does seem like a nice stealth recorder. 48K limitation is probaly fine. At least it's 24Bit. I'd like to hear more feedback from people who have this one.

Steve

[brucie]

I have an Edirol as a notepad, back up back up recorder and I have to say that I have been very impressed with it. Yes it is a little noisy when you use the internal mics, but I connect it to any external pre and it sounds great.

It is dead handy for doing stealth recordings, where you don't want people to react to a guy standing there with a big recorder or microphone (yes people do act differently when they see you there recording stuff). It is also great for just getting rough recordings in the field without having tons of gear. Oh and it can fit into very small places! I also really like the interface, turn it on and record! Simple!

I would equate it to a good level digital camera compared to the Sound Devices being a pro level SLR. That is to say you can get great pictures from a low end digital camera if you know what you are doing. Hope that helps.

If you have any specific further question, please just ask.

All the best

Neil

[audiothings]

take a look at the korg mr-1.

[smsjr]

Neil, that's good to know. Thanks!

Steve

[clipgod]

Just got the Zoom H4 and used it on a set last week for some additional atmos.
Actually I am just editing sounds recorded with it, ... and it sounds great !!!

Considering it`s price, this little box is amazing and for atmos, sound design, ...
With a little processing and eq`ing you can get the same quality than with any other sound library, but those are your own sounds.

hope this helps

[AdHawk]

Originally Posted by clipgod

With a little processing and eq`ing you can get the same quality than with any other sound library, but those are your own sounds.

hope this helps

That´s great, just what I wanted.
Let´s hope the H2 is as good as the H4 then.

Like someone said -" When you show a microphone, people react to it"
I want to lurk

I want to record ambiences, bus rides, beach sounds, department stores, cafe sounds etc.. with decent quality without walking around with headphones and a windscreen mic.

[soundboy]

Thanks for all the replys. I'm goimg to try and find a rental has these recorders and rent them. I'll let you know what I find.

[andivax]

Zoom H4 - cool price and nice features.

Roland R09 - i don't think so. it's not your recorder if you need phantom power...

[santacore]

Hey Soundboy, shoot me a PM if you want to check out the Sound Devices 722 or the MicroTrack. I have both and would be willing to work something out if you want to borrow them or just test them quickly.

If you want high quality, then the Sound Devices gear seems like the best bet. I love mine and have no regrets with the purchase. A great mid priced option would be the Fostex FR-2. As for the sub 1K options, I think they are all similar in sound. I would pick whatever fit's best in terms of size and ease of use. The MicroTrack I bought is fine for a cheap recorder but I've had many issues with reliability. Those problems ultimately let me to get the Sound Devices which I love.

If you have any other questions shoot me a PM.

John

[soundguydave]

I own a few of the microtracks, and they are great. I have one with me at all times, just in case I am walking buy something and it makes that perfect noise. True story, I was doing a radio commercial and I needed the sound of bad bearings on a car. I was walking home through the city and happened to come by an exhaust fan that was making an awful noise. I pulled out the microtrack, recorded it and dropped it in the next day. Client loved it.

I do have to say the menu is a bit goofy, but each firmaware upgrade fixes something, so maybe eventually they'll get it.

On another note, what is the size of the SD 702, I'd like to upgrade for serious SFX recording one day....

[minister]

Originally Posted by soundguydave

On another note, what is the size of the SD 702, I'd like to upgrade for serious SFX recording one day....

Dimensions and Weight:
45 mm x 209 mm x 125 mm (H x W x D) 1.8” x 8.2” x 4.9” mass unpackaged: 1.0 kg, (2.1 lbs) without battery

[smsjr]

You could hide the Sound Devices unit in a backpack, hook up a remote cable that runs down the sleeve of your shirt and allows you to go into record when you come across that perfect sound. Your trusty, miniature ultra coverage microphone is attached to the brim of your baseball cap or perhaps disguised as a cell phone and you could essentially wander around all day with no one knowing you are recording. Problem solved.

Seriously though, the SD units are not as stealth, but man do they make good recordings. 24Bit 96K sounds oh so nice. Like everyone else, there are situations where I find it a little weird bringing a recorder of that size and a microphone. But I suppose if the sound is really cool and you absolutley need it, so be it if people look at you funny. I think the ultimate trick is to look as dorky as possible so people just feel bad for you and don't pay any attention to what you are doing. That's my newest trick anyway.

Sorry to hijack the thread with low brow humor.

Steve

[minister]

or give you a wide berth....

[soundguydave]

Originally Posted by smsjr

You could hide the Sound Devices unit in a backpack, hook up a remote cable that runs down the sleeve of your shirt and allows you to go into record when you come across that perfect sound. Your trusty, miniature ultra coverage microphone is attached to the brim of your baseball cap or perhaps disguised as a cell phone and you could essentially wander around all day with no one knowing you are recording. Problem solved.

Seriously though, the SD units are not as stealth, but man do they make good recordings. 24Bit 96K sounds oh so nice. Like everyone else, there are situations where I find it a little weird bringing a recorder of that size and a microphone. But I suppose if the sound is really cool and you absolutley need it, so be it if people look at you funny. I think the ultimate trick is to look as dorky as possible so people just feel bad for you and don't pay any attention to what you are doing. That's my newest trick anyway.

Sorry to hijack the thread with low brow humor.

Steve

Are you suggesting that I would be recording live performances of artists that would object top such a recording?

I was just wondering, because I just wanted to start beefing up my SFX collection with more of my own stuff. The microtrack is great to carry around all the time and get sounds here and there, but I'd love something more serious for those times when i set out to just record SFX.

And FYI, the microtracks and other small recorders are no good for the recording of live shows, legal or illegal.

[stilts27]

Originally Posted by introvert

The Sound Devices 744T is a great box. One of my coworkers has it and it sounds great. Another option is the M-Audio Microtrack, which doesn't sound fantastic on its own, but with a better front end (Apogee MiniMe for example) is a great little digital recorder.

NOOB question...How would I go about that? I have a MiniMe on its way and will have either the H4 or Microtrack soon too....How would I power the MiniMe in the field?

Thanks