Recording classical guitar

[Ihsahn1981]

Hi guys.


Sorry if Im just harping on an old topic here. Forgiveness please

Im a student now so I cannot afford to use a decent studio for my stuff so I have to make due with what Ive got.

Im about to record an acoustic album with classical guitar and vocals.
This is the gear I have available:

Focusrite Saffire Pro 10 i/o
Matched pair of sE3 mics
sE 2200a mic
Rode NT1-A mic
UAD plugins (the bundled plugins + Plate 140 and LA-2A)

I think that would give me a recording chain that could give me a decent sound.


Now the big problem:

I dont have a great sounding room to record in.

So how should I approach this? Should I try to get my recordings as dry as possible and add reverb with plugins later? Or is that just never gonna cut it?

I have the sE Reflexion Filter which takes care of reflexions from the back. Kinda tricky to use it with the sE3 mics but I can manage.
Any advice on additional DIY solutions is appreciated.

Im a newbie when it comes to recording classical guitar so any advice is appreciated.


I have done some test recordings with my setup and Im not happy with the sound I have got so far.


Thanks in advance for any replies.

[66d35]

Originally Posted by Ihsahn1981

Hi guys.

I dont have a great sounding room to record in.

I'd try to find a good space. With classical guitar, more than most things, it is absolutely critical. The mics and interface you have are good enough to get fine results, but in a poor space, nothing will really cut it. Recording as dry as possible and they adding convolution reverb might be worth a try, but it is a challenging instrument in that players KNOW exactly how it should sound and they are used to hearing CD's recorded in really good studios and concert halls. Churches can be a good recording environment for classical guitar... just a thought.

Andy

[turk sanchez]

Hang some moving blankets around you so you are in "a little booth" and close mic where the neck meets the body with any one of you mics (try them all once) or try an x/y pattern with your matched pair...mic really close and watch out for boomy lows...if so angle mics (or move them) more towards the neck...or towards the body/soundhole if too thin. Turn off the heater (or air).

See if that helps. I would cut vocals in the "booth" too. You can also open a closet and sing into the clothes and hang some packing blankets behind you...even better.

As the above poster said definetly try some reverb in the mix. Don't compress too much since it's classical...maybe just a little limiting on the whole mix...and an la2a on the vocals (just kiss it).

[Master Tang]

This being Low End Theory and all, I'm fairly sure changing locations is out of the question.

With that being said, I heard a really decent sounding classical recording that was done in a bathroom. He said it took him a while to get the mic placement right so it wasn't too slap backy, and it still sounded smallish reverb wise, but I woulda never guessed where he recorded it.

It wouldn't win any Grammys, but it was passable.

I would do the vocals in a dry room, and add reverb with a plug-in.

[drumkideric]

If the classical guitar player doesn't mind it, I would suggest making the place as dry as possible, and add the ambience and space later. That would be better than having nasty reflections and room noise. Dryer rooms tend to bring out the sounds and "mistakes" that classical guitarists aren't used to hearing because they typically play in very ambient places. This could bug some players.

If possible, I would check to see where the guitarist normally plays/practices at, and if possible I would go and record there. Also, as mentioned before, check your local church. They can have great sanctuaries to record it.

As far as mics and placement go. I would try putting the se3's in a coincident a foot or 2 away from the guitar. I would also maybe put the Rode by the guitarists ear. They know what kind of tone they want, and they hear it through their ears, so it is always interesting putting a mic there. I suggest checking out some classical guitar Cd's, such as David Russell, and try to copy that sound as much as possible. One other thing to watch out for is the string noise from sliding frets. Most players don't like to hear very much of it, so try to position the mics accordingly.

Hope this helps out a bit.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Master Tang

This being Low End Theory and all, I'm fairly sure changing locations is out of the question.

I don't think so. You won't need a hi-end studio, just a good sounding space.

A while ago I watched Julian Bream's the excellent 'My life in music' DVD and he said that he was dissatisfied with the sound of his recordings for a long time, even though he had access to great studios. It wasn't until he started to record on location in an old chapel that he got the sound that he wanted.

'Dry and then add reverb' won't work with acoustic guitar, period. With steel-string or singer/songwriter stuff you might get by if it's a dry sound on purpose but classical guitar needs resonance and 'air' IMO. I guess that the performance also vastly benefits from a livlier room. And it's not just about 'huge reverb', it's more about reflection, like say a stone-walled room might give you a relatively dry sound but great diffusion and sparkle.

Look at it this way: if it's 'just' solo guitar and voice then moving the equipment won't be a problem, nor will there be 'noise' issues as we're dealing with a very quiet instrument.

I'd recommend to get somebody to do the actual recording though, even if it's your own equipment so that you're able to concentrate on the performance. Just spend as much time as necessary finding the right position foer the guitar to sound great in the room and then the right position of the mics. If possible I'd do it in two seperate sessions as your inspiration might suffer after 5 hours of checking mics.

I played cleassical guitar for quite a few years and I know that it's an incredible difficult instrument to master, so the perfromance aspect will be the most important thing by far.

Good luck!

[tINY]

Sounds like your set-up is reasonably portable. G0 find a church building, Elks lodge, bus station, or whatever you have around that's somewhat quiet in the middle of the night. Talk someone there into letting you record.



-tINY

[uncle duncan]

I've found that bright mics bring out the worst in a classical guitar. This could be what you're hearing in your recordings so far. Overdubbing the vocal should help eliminate phase issues, but it won't solve the mic problem. I've had great luck with a modded Oktava 319 LDC and a modded Oktava MK-011, which is a mid sized condensor intended for broadcasters. Both these mics have very flat response, allowing you to hear the tone of the guitar without all the squeaks and fret buzzes distracting your attention.

Perhaps, if you can't trade up to some flatter mics, you could try foam pop filters on them, or move them around, looking for a sweet spot. Your best investment at this point might be a set of isolation headphones, so you can actually hear what your mics are giving you before you record.

[mahler007]

The beauty of recording classical guitar in a nice space is that it exponentially amplifies the depth, dynamic range, and the variety of nuance in your playing. It can be really inspiring to play in an environment like this, and your performance will definitely reflect that.

I've played in some really nice spaces, and I'm not exaggerating when I say that playing CG in a dry space vs. a great hall is not unlike the difference between playing an electric guitar un-amplified vs. through a Marshall stack or a Fender Twin :-)

One thing that has driven me nuts with recording guitar is that the stereo image never seems to sit quite right with a relatively close mic'd stereo pair- the balance always seems to be off, which is how it may seem to you as a player from the perspective of the instrument being "under your ear," but in reality, as an audience member, you don't perceive it that way.

Next time I make a recording I think I may play around a bit with an M/S setup in conjunction with some spaced omnis to capture the hall... Sorry to be so colossally unhelpful!

Best wishes,
Andrew

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by Master Tang

I heard a really decent sounding classical recording that was done in a bathroom....

It wouldn't win any Grammys, but it was passable.

Is there a pun in there somewhere?

[FossilTooth]

Yeah, good space is key for a convincing solo performance.

As far as placement, XY is a pretty forgiving way to go if you're a beginner and you're recording a solo instrument with "ok" mics.

There are a million things you can try, but if you want to be pretty sure you''l get something acceptable, it's always a good place to start. As you gain confidence and experience, there are plenty of things to try. With almost anything, there as many approaches as there are engineers.