Interested in opinions on equipment

[talbe1019]

Hey everyone...

I am interested in opinions which way to go.
I want to scale down on size a bit. I have a tentative deal to sell my Soundcraft Ghost. I was basically using it for pre's to my HD24 and monitoring. I am not so concerned on the monitoring end of things but I am going to need some pre's to get to my HD24. Here is where the options come in.
1) Should I buy just pre's with no A/D conversion and upgrade my HD24 to an XR and use the HD 24's converters or...
2) Should I buy pre's with A/D conversion and use the ADAT in on the HD24.

My budget is about $2500-3000 and I have no problems buying used equipment.
I was looking into buying the Digimax 96k units or something similar.
Anyone have opinions on how they sound?
After thinking about it awhile, I read some reviews that said the HD24XR units have pretty good converters and just get some good pre's and let the HD24 do the conversion.

HELP!!!
Thanks in advance.

[Remoteness]

I don't know if it was me I would just get the pres...

Yeah, the Alesis HD24XR's convertion sounds pretty damn good to my ears when you think about the price point.
I would get the EC2 kit and up grade to the XR.
It's a great bang for buck ratio.

With that said, the light pipe option is cool too.
It really depends on the cost factors involved, but IMO you're good to go in either direction.
Finding the killer gear within your new/used price range is another thing.

Well, there you go -- keep us posted on what you decided to do.

[Jungle Jazz]

I've been quite happy with the converters on the HD24XR myself. Either getting the upgrade kit or selling your HD24 and getting a stock HD24XR could be a good option. Although, if your total budget is 2500-3000, the EC-2 upgrade is about $800, which might considerably reduce your preamp options.

How many channels of preamps do you need? All 24? Do you need/want 24 channels of the same kind of preamps, or do you want some variety?

I have a range of preamps myself, but since a lot of my remote work is under 16 channels, often eight or fewer, I got 8 channels of Focusrite ISA428 and a Digimax FS. I also have 16 channels of SP828 which I use if I need 16 channels of the same kind of preamp. Also, because the SP828 has a built in mixer, I can use the SP828s for monitoring off the backend when I'm using other preamps to track, or I can use them to monitor the incoming signal when using them to track.

[Remoteness]

At a Glance that Studio Projects eight channel mic preamp and 8x2 mixer looks good with individual I/Os and such.
You can also link up to four of those puppies for a larger rig, but how do you compare its sound to your other mic pres? Does the 2 buss sound okay or just good enough for monitoring?

For about $700.00 USD it looks like a nice piece, but does it sound good enough to be used as your main mic pre system if you only had the bread for that one?

[talbe1019]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

At a Glance that Studio Projects eight channel mic preamp and 8x2 mixer looks good with individual I/Os and such.
You can also link up to four of those puppies for a larger rig, but how do you compare its sound to your other mic pres? Does the 2 buss sound okay or just good enough for monitoring?

For about $700.00 USD it looks like a nice piece, but does it sound good enough to be used as your main mic pre system if you only had the bread for that one?

That SP828 does look pretty cool...how does it sound?
I know the EC-2 upgrade is a quite expensive, I am now kicking myself for not buying the XR version when I first got my HD24.

Yep I will need 24 channels pre's...I guess I wouldprefer them to be the same, but not necessarily. But I need them to obviously be rack mountable.
How are the Digimax pre's? Are the Digimax 96k's decent? I can find them used in my budget. What about the FS? What about other Presonus pre's?

If the EC-2 upgrade is $800 that would leave $2000 or so for pre's. Any recommendations for new pre's maybe in the $1000 for 8 channes?
Maybe I can find some things used or maybe I can sell some other things to get what I need.
Anybody need some old syndicated radio show vinyl, reel or cd's?? I have been selling off my collection and bought a bunch of mics....looks like I may do the same thing here.
Thanks for the input guys...I know you guys would be full of ideas.

[tnjazz]

The Digimax 96's are pretty decent. Only thing I didn't like about them is their separate power supply. So you'd need to rack those separately on a shelf, and they're heavy!

There's a Mackie Onyx 800R for sale on this board right now I believe. It's a good utility preamp to have, because it can sound pretty good on most anything. It's got digital and analog I/O, so if you ever make the switch over to the XR you could always just pick up a DB25 cable and be good to go with that one.

We upgraded our HD24's to XRs and there is a difference in converters, although not as much as you might think. It all depends on what you're using them for. We do mostly small club live stuff and it's not as huge a jump sonically as it might be in a more controlled studio environment.

[Jungle Jazz]

Not that I usually shop there, but I was just looking over at Sweetwater, and it looks like there's a bunch of newer eight channel preamp units that have just come out or will soon be coming out. There's a new unit from Presonsus, the D8, and some others. You might want to explore those options just to see what’s what.

The SP828 sounds pretty good. It's clean without being sterile, and what sonic signature it has is on the musical side, being slightly warm. It really is handy to have the summing mixer, and it has a small footprint, taking up only a single rack space.

The mixer section sounds nice on an individual unit, mixing eight channels down to two track; however, when cascading several units together, it uses an 8 pin DIN cable (the old Mac printer cables), not exactly an audio standard, so I'm not sure the quality of the sound coming out of the last unit. I've never actually recorded the total summed output of multiple units--I only use that for monitoring. Although, I have recorded the summed two buss of a single SP828 unit, and it sounds quite good. On occasion, I've used a single SP828 as a front end for a Masterlink to do live two-track work.

Things I don't like about the SP828:
1) It has a line lump power supply, not the end of the world, but it feels a little less than professional.
2) I've had some issues with the stereo image getting reversed in the second unit when cascading multiple SP828s together. For some reason, the panning gets flipped on the second unit in the chain. I’ve inquired to PMI group about this, but I have not yet received a response.
3) The input impedance is a tad high, fixed at 2.5khz, which will work for most mics, but I've found that it can boost the high end in a mic that already has a hyped high end, not exactly the kind of thing I look for in location work.

To answer Steve’s question, if these are the kind of options you need, and it fits your price point, it could be a good choice. However, I bought mine when they cost less—they used to MAP at $599 and sell for less, but now that they MAP at more than $700. I’m not sure if it’s the bargain that it used to be. There’s a poster on GS named Gilliland who’s written about the SP828s as well (both here and on other audio boards). You might look for his comments as he has posted some audio samples.

The Digimax FS has a different kind of sound. The preamps are clean, with a tight, albeit a little lean, low end, but the highs are quite clear and extended. It gets more of the “air” sound than the SP828. The converters are actually pretty good. I really like the routing options: AD, DA, inserts, and direct outs. It’s got a good clock, too. I find it a little less musical than the SP828 right out of the box, but the tracks are definitely workable. It might be a little antiseptic sounding for vox, so if you track a lot of vocals, you might want a couple channels of something else for them.

In this price range, it might actually be the added features that sway you towards picking one unit over another. Do you need digital outs? Summing? Inserts? A couple channels of DI? As mentioned, there are the Mackie Onyx units, some offerings from Focusrite, Line Audio preamps, and several others.

I’m hesitant to do any comparison in this context to the ISA428, as those are more like $400 per channel as opposed to the around $100 per channel or less that we are talking about with these other units. The ISA428 is what I would consider the beginning of high end preamps. The sound is present, but not overly colored. I really like them on the basic jazz trio—piano, bass, and drums--and vocals work well on them, too. The channels stack well, and they have a more refined, finished sound than any of the other preamps I’ve been discussing here. I don’t know if this makes sense, but to me, they provide more of a studio-like sound than a purely live session sound—that is, they sound more like a record without much tweaking.

The ISAs have Lundahl transformers, 80 db of gain, inserts, variable impedance, variable roll off filters, instrument ins, and feel well built. There are optional AD cards, but I don’t have them. Downsides: They run hot (but I’ve never had any issues because of that), and they’re on the heavy side. I’m not crazy about the VU meters, which seem not entirely accurate, or, for location work at least, worth the real estate they take up. If considering the ISA range, the new ISA828 might be a better way to go, as they put eight pres into a two rack unit, but you lose some of the features of the ISA428.

I’d love to see/hear a comparison between the ISA range and the True Systems P8. I’ve never used the True, but I’m curious about them. I really like the recordings that Steve has done with them (I’ve got a couple of the live at the Blue Note CDs—Herwig’s Another Kind of Blue and Goldstein's Under Rousseau’s Moon), and they seem pretty handy for remote work.

In any case, I hope some of this helps your search.

[talbe1019]

I have some real thinking to do. I will have to see what I can afford.
As much as I would love to get some of the True Systems pre's - I think they are quite a bit out of my budget. The Focusrite pre's look nice, but I am not too fond of 2 spaces for 8 channels.
By the way I do not need inserts or DI's...just either straight pre's and the EC-2 option or pre's with lightpipe out.
I see I have a lot of researching to do.

[talbe1019]

Has anyone tried out the Focusrite Octopre?
If so what is the verdict on that one.

[talbe1019]

After some research I think I have decided to blow the budget....
I am 90% convinced to get the Audient ASP008 preamps....

Anyone have any for sale?

Thanks guys.

[Jimbo]

Now that you've decided to blow the budget, you can probably find a used, older-model ATI 8MX2 for under $1400. Someone on GS recently sold one for $1200...a screaming good deal!

[Remoteness]

I must say the Audio Toys stuff is super!

[talbe1019]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I must say the Audio Toys stuff is super!

I am going look into both the Audio Toys stuff and and the Audient stuff.
I will find a way to pay for it.

Thanks everyone.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by talbe1019

Has anyone tried out the Focusrite Octopre?
If so what is the verdict on that one.

dfegad Octopre

[talbe1019]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

dfegad Octopre

Alright, alright...no Octopre.

[talbe1019]

I would like to thank Jimbo for the ATI 8MX2 suggestion. I happen to find 6 of them used close to where I live. Of course I am only buying 3 of them. They are about 3 years old, were used on a tour and have been sitting on a shelf since. I am going to pay for them and pick them up early next week. I am guessing they are in nice shape...just a little dusty. If anyone is intersted when I go to pick them up I can relay the condition and give a contact. The price wasn't a new price, but it wasn't the $1200 either.

Thanks for all the help guys.

[studio1117]

Hey, i'd be interested possibly in the other 3. Let me know what they are hopng to get for them

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by talbe1019

I would like to thank Jimbo for the ATI 8MX2 suggestion.

I'm just paying it forward, friend.

It sounds like you're getting them for a decent price if the units are late model. Make sure that the units are the reissue -- the reissue has phantom power control on the front panel. If they don't have phantom on the front, then it is the older, original make which should be closer to $1200 used.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by talbe1019

I will find a way to pay for it.

Words of a true GS!

Originally Posted by tnjazz

dfegad Octopre

Sentiment of a true GS!!

[talbe1019]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I'm just paying it forward, friend.

It sounds like you're getting them for a decent price if the units are late model. Make sure that the units are the reissue -- the reissue has phantom power control on the front panel. If they don't have phantom on the front, then it is the older, original make which should be closer to $1200 used.

I specifically asked that questioned, and the phantom switches are on the front. I am guessing they were in a rack the whole time and then on shelf after being un-racked. The consoles they have for sale look to be in great condition as well (at least from the pics). Needless to say, I get the pick of the litter.

[Jimbo]

So, did you buy the ATIs?
If so, how are they working for you?

[talbe1019]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

So, did you buy the ATIs?
If so, how are they working for you?

Actually, I did buy the ATI's and couldn't be happier. The pre's sound quite a bit better than the Souncraft Ghost I was using (not to mention a little easier on the back). The built in mixer is good enough to make sure everything is there and there are no problems with the mics/channels. I ended up buying 3 units and have been solid.
Thanks for asking.

[Remoteness]

See what I'm saying?
The ATI pres (now known as API) are as awesome as our statements.

Enjoy!

[talbe1019]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

See what I'm saying?
The ATI pres (now known as API) are as awesome as our statements.

Enjoy!

I wish I would have went that route from the start...but you have to start somewhere. I also ended up buying the EC-2 upgrade and an additional HD24XR (from the for sale portion of the forum) for either redundancy or expansion. I also bought some pretty standard mics (414's, 421's, 451's etc) and just need to find some work. Thanks for all the suggestions to everyone in the remote forum.