Vocal mics that FOH won't mind and have "little bleed"

[cleantone]

Okay, I am wondering what the folks here have to say about this. I am getting pretty fed up with building a mix around a lead vocal channel that has the whole band in it. I record mostly at small to medium bars, clubs, and theaters. I have some KMS105's and e865's that I used to really like. Now I am looking for something that has much less bleed and a good vocal to noise ratio. I recorded with some house mics at a blues club a few weeks ago and used some weird EV house mic for the male bg vox. It had the lowest leakage I think I have ever seen and still sounded pretty good. What have you seasoned recordists found to help with this? How about those Heil mics I have never used? How do those hold up?

[robd]

The Rode S2 has a very tight spot. However, if there's a hard wall too close behind the singer, you might have to put foam or something on that spot to try to keep the reflections out of it.

[jasonraboin]

The just released Heil PR-35 sounds like it might be the ticket for you. Its bleed is somewhere between that of a Sennheiser e935, which is the tightest mic I have used, and the KSM 105, which is on the other end of the spectrum. I can't say enough good things about this mic. The ratio of sound quality to bleed is something I have been searching for for years. The only mic I would put in the same category is the Beyer M700, which is not made anymore.

[cleantone]

Thanks guys. I'd be interested in hearing more input. I guess to clarify... beyond bleed I am looking for something that is good onstage and not that hot. This EV I used that I mentioned above had the lowest signal (that was not vocals) that I have seen before. You know what I mean? When the guy was no singing there was almost nothing in his channel but when he did sing the signal was great. I was so used to having load of guitar, drums, and whatnot in the mic when the singer is backed off.

Jason,

I don't live too far from you. I am surprised we haven't met. Do you only work on the road? You have a sweet gig!

[Jimbo]

I tried my Beyer m88 on my own vocals during a recent stage performance and was pretty surprised with the sound. My voice is soft, and the hard sound of the m88 really helped my vocals cut through.

The hypercardiod pattern on the m88 is very small (see the docs on Beyer's site). It's even smaller than the Senn e935 that was mentioned previously.

The Beyer m69 looks to be an m88 without the bass extension. The pattern is equally small, and the response looks pretty similar to the m88 -- except the extreme low end. It's also about $100 less than the m88.

I'll probably be getting an m69 for my vocals since the m88 is normally reserved for other roles (e.g., bass drum).

I can't comment on the m69/m88 for recording stage vocals, but I'm sure others here have used it for this purpose. Perhaps they can chime in.

[fifthcircle]

Had great luck with the Beyer M88 here... Otherwise, the usual stuff- a Beta 87 is pretty tight, the Audix OM7 (???- I think that is the one. I can never remember which Audix is which) has a good sound and a pretty tight pickup. Stay away from the condensers. You'll want a mic that you have to get pretty tight on to sing.

--Ben

[XJR]

I get the best results so far with a Senn EW165, if the singer eats one of those then he can stand 2' in front of a loud drummer and it doesn't pick up much.
Getting good results in this field with Senn E906's on guitars as well, in terms of less spill than a 57.

[thedoner]

I've got some Heil PR20's but I've only used them on one gig so far. The results were AMAZING on the male vocal: Very warm and present. However on the female vocal it was far too sibilant. I ended up swapping it out for an EV (I forget the model) that belonged to the FOH guys.
Rejection was good, but the gig was M&F Vox/El. Gtr/Keys/Violin/Djembe....No drumkit, so the stage volume wasn't excessive. They have a cardioid pattern, so the rejection on the Sen. 935, and some of the other above mentioned mics is likely better.
Good luck,
-Gordon

[Jim vanBergen]

Echo the love on the Beyer M69 and M88, these are two sleeper mics that work in places none other -especially much more expensive mics- will. They are classic mics with low output, great design & a touch of color that are phenomenal workers.

I also have several of and like the Audix OM2, OM3, OM5, OM7. The 7 has a super-tight pattern but is much louder than the others to me, probably why it became THE mic for Blink 182, Chili Peppers, etc. The others vary in pattern and output level, and while they exhibit a touch more handling noise than Shures, I think they are damn accurate, highly robust, and look great on camera.

E/V has the N/D267 (I think!) and similar mics with various patterns, that many vocalists swear by as "must-have" mics. You may want to look and see if the N/Dyn series is what you were working with, and try them out.

The things you will have to look for are pattern (choose which variant of cardioid based on the singer's mic technnique) and condenser vs dynamic, with sensitivity being the key to getting enough vocal and nearly no band. Billy Joe's Shure vocal mic on Green Day concerts gets so much bleed there is no need for drum overheads. I hear your pain.

As someone who does double duty as FOH and Recording engineer, I'd be happy to find just about any of these in the hands of a singer with decent mic technique.

Hope these thoughts help.

[bishopthomas]

If the EV mic you were using had a yellow ring around the grill then it was probably from the N/DYN series. I have used those a couple of times and really liked them (I can't remember what model though). The band I work with has a flailing drummer and the singer plays a Triple Rectifier through a 4x12 slanted cabinet directly behind him. We both love the sound of the VX5 but now I'm trying to talk him out of using it because of how much stage volume it picks up. I switched to an OM5 for a couple of shows and it allowed me to bring in the hihat and ride mics a bit (still no overheads). I haven't listened to the tracks yet, but I'm sure the recordings are now usable (they weren't before).

[PlugHead]

Beyer M260 is a good choice too, esp. if you have lots of clean gain.

Senn 441 is also an underrated vocal mic, tho is often more spendy than most live mics...

Best,

[ahjteam]

AKG D 5

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by ahjteam

AKG D 5

Really -- do you like the sound of that mic?

[IDOAUDIO]

try the Equation DSV-10 VERY tight pattern, and sounds like a Neumann 105 with better warmth.

Cheap as well