Which Schoeps is for me?

[PT6.7UZR]

I play classical piano and have a DAV BG1 2-channel pre, RME ADI 2 converters into Pro Tools.
Current mics are a pair of new AKG C 414 LTDs (which have the flatter response like the XLSs).
The room is my weakest link.

I'm a decent pianist but a beginning recorder (recordist?).
I just fired up all the new equipment last night for the first time.
I was astonished by the clairy of this gear and how much dynamic range I have. Amazing!!! Simply Amazing, I couldn't believe the gear was turned on till I played.
It seems as if the mics are not potted up; there is NO audible noise at nominal levels.
The sound is just like the live piano in the room, warts and all. - - - Sonic Bliss! at least to my unexperienced ears.

But I understand the work has just begun.
I will get better and better sound as I experiment with all the usual stereo mic pair orientations and positions.
Then I'll wonder how much better it would be with a pair of Schoeps.

Because of the pending large price increase I'm strongly considering buying a pair of Schoeps.
Then I'd experiment with mic positions (and now mic selection) for a very long time.
Then I'd sell either the AKGs or the Schoeps.
I know I'll loose some money but want to find the best sound for me.

Keep in mind the Schoeps will be competing with the flexiblity of my 414's 5 patterns, omni, wide card, card, hypercard, and Fig-8.
I suspect having these 5 patterns will pay off as I experiment with mic positions in my living room (which can't be converted to a studio, barring a divorce).

The piano room is 425 sq. ft with 9 ft ceilings, hard lath and plaster walls, solid oak floors on a raised foundation, moveable heavy rugs and bookcases.

So, which Schoeps model/capsules would be best for me?

Perhaps a pair of Schoeps with 2 or 3 different patterned capsules would be advisable?
Once I find my sound I'll sell the capsules I don't favor.
I think the Schoeps are small capsule condensers. No?
Are small capsules preferred for my application, or are large capsules preferred?
And does Schoeps make a large-capsule condenser that may be best for me?

or . . . are the 414s so good that I'll probably not hear the difference?
Oh, and how is the name Schoeps pronounced?

[fafalio]

considering your pre is very good, schoeps will be better than akg. surely.
you need a pair af schoeps.
one mk21 and one mk4, all this is you need.
best regards,
Alessandro.

[bove]

Which patterns to buy is a personal decision based on how you intend to use the microphones, but I can say that I have had good experience recording piano with a pair of Schoeps MK2 positioned relatively close to the instrument. That situation may work well in your room. Other quality choices for different stereo configurations might be a pair of MK21 or a pair of MK4.

You should probably try a few different capsules. When I bought my first pair of Schoeps, the dealer shipped three sets of capsules for me to try out, and I just kept my favorite.

The difference in sound quality between Schoeps SDC and the AKG 414 is significant.

[66d35]

Originally Posted by bove

The difference in sound quality between Schoeps SDC and the AKG 414 is significant.

Unquestionably. Very fine mics indeed.

Just a thought, but I would also investigate the Earthworks omni's for piano. These can also sound really spectacular. Noise floor is a bit higher, but the 'presence' is remarkable.

Certainly worth auditioning.

Andy

[pkautzsch]

You might need a pair of real pressure omnis, that would be the MK2 (or one of its derivates - H or S version)
But only a Schoeps is a Schoeps, and you might well find you'll want more caps later on. Your 414s can serve well as spot mics in a Schoeps main pair context, or if you want to use different patterns. Having both is good.
Having pairs of MK2, MK4, MK21, MK8, and 414, and U89, is gearslutism at entry-level.

[kingfishcigars]

Originally Posted by fafalio

considering your pre is very good, schoeps will be better than akg. surely.
you need a pair af schoeps.
one mk21 and one mk4, all this is you need.
best regards,
Alessandro.

arent the mk5 a switchable pattern capsule?? i believe you can switch between the mk2 (omni) or mk4 (card) that may be an option as well.

[bove]

Originally Posted by kingfishcigars

arent the mk5 a switchable pattern capsule?? i believe you can switch between the mk2 (omni) or mk4 (card) that may be an option as well.

Keep in mind that both of the MK 5 positions have a high frequency boost as compared to the MK2 and MK4, so it's not exactly like having those two capsules on hand. Also costs $400 more, but could be a nice option where flexibility is desired.

[PT6.7UZR]

I've been looking at the Schoeps April 2007 price list.

The matched set of MK6 (3-pattern capsules) wtih the CMC6 bodies is $4797.
That saves $1601 over a matched set of MK2/CMC6s and adding matched sets of Fig-8 and cardiod capsules.

Hmmm.
Besides saving money it would be nice to have one capsule that does all, and that I never have to change out.

But does the 3-in-1 MK6 capsule really perform as well as each of the 3 single-pattern capsules?
It sounds too good to be true.

I believe that every Schoeps dealer sells at full list so shopping for a good price is futile.
No?

[klaukholm]

The MK6 is a very good capsule.
The figure eight pattern is the best of the three and pretty flat.
omni is a bit brighter than mk2h but darker than mk2s and the cardioid has a bit more high lift than mk4 but less so than mk4v.

I would get the mk6 and a pair of mk21

[hughesmr]

If you buy only one Schoeps pr for classical piano, I'd suggest MK21 caps. Very very good in a varierty of acoustical concert situations in my experience. 50-60cm A/B with these babies can be just wonderful. In a superb space, I tend to go with MK2S, so I'd suggest MK2S or MK2H as a second pr. If a touch too bright, gentle EQ will smooth things out.

Kjetil's recommendation is very good too; will enable you to do MS with MK21/MK6.

But WHATEVER you do, decide quickly .... Schoeps prices increase 15-25% on Feb 1st here in the US (see other thread).

[klaukholm]

I agree about the 21 capsule if that is the only pair you will get. It is also a superb close orchestra outrigger and is next on my shoppinglist after protools....

[PT6.7UZR]

Thank you.
After reading your responses and Shoeps' lengthy catalog I'm leaning towards a matched pair of MK21s with CMC6xt bodies for the extended response out to 40KHz.
Then a pair of MK2 capsules.
(Why do you recommend the MK2S or H for my application which again is a 9 ft grand in a living room with so so acoustics.)
The next 3 lines are snipped from the Schoeps' catalog:
MK 2 Omni, flat frequency response, near field
MK 2 H Omni, slight high frequency emphasis only above 6 kHz
MK 2 S Omni, moderate high frequency emphasis for universal use

I anticipate the mics will end up from 2 to 6 feet from the open lid of the 9' 2" concert grand in a 425 sq. ft room.
Is this considered near field?

I think if I can only afford two pairs of caps these are the best two for me, the MK21 and MK2.

Schoeps' description of the MK5 and MK6 multi-pattern capsules does leave me with the impression that minor compromises were necessary to get all that flexibility in one capsule.
Apparently going with single-pattern capsules is the best sonic route.

Who is an excellent reputable dealer likely to have these in stock?

[klaukholm]

I would strongly advice you to stay away from the XT body.
The compromises in the XT are far bigger than the ones in the mk6 and the difference is quite audible. Schoeps have three great bodies cmc5/6 and M222 I am sorry to say the XT is not one of them.

Reading the catalogue is one thing. I would strongly encourage you to demo the MK21 and the mk6 maybe along with an mk4 and one of the mk2 versions.
There are many who feel the mk6 is less perfect then the single capsules.
There are also the ones who prefer the mk5 and mk6 cardioid pattern to the mk4.
I would rather say it has a slightly different flavour, which is why I have and use both.

You can't go wrong with the mk21.
Call Wes Dooley, soundpure or posthorn. I would imagine they all stock the mk21 and may let you have a few other capsules to demo.

[hughesmr]

dfegadSkip the -xt bodies. I have never known of anyone who prefers them to the standard CMC6 bodies. Put your $$ elsewhere.

The omni preferences from Schoeps are, for many, a matter of taste even when used in the same application. Some prefer MK2, some MK2S. Maybe not right now, but someday you may find yourself recording piano in a real hall somewhere, and for classical piano in a real hall using pressure transducers, you are going to record from a diffuse field position and hence will benefit from some HF emphasis to recover some brilliance, thus my preference of the 2S. At least that's my opinion.

I'd suggest buying from Jerry Bruck at Posthorn Recordings in NYC. He will also be a great source of advice on capsule choice ... he KNOWS his stuff. thumbsup

[PT6.7UZR]

Okay thanks - will steer clear of the xt bodies.

If I go the MK2 & MK21 route I will not have true cardioid (MK4) which is needed for ORTF, XY.

. . . or is the "sub cardiod" pattern of the MK21 close enough?

It sounds like there is wide agreement that if I could only get one pair it would be MK21.
But for pair number two it sounds like there is a tie between the MK2 omni, and the MK4 cardioid.

[klaukholm]

A wider version of the ORTF with wide cardioids is a very good sound.
For classical music I like it a lot more than ORTF with cardioids.