Classical recording enquiry.....

[XLR2XLR]

Hi there, I had an enquiry today about a classical recording for a feature film score.

I am told that the film is high end / low budget (I can hear your thoughts already)

The cash has been blown on composer and musicians and this person needs a
decent recording at low cost.

I am assuming that the composer is working to picture, if I can offer a "budget" recording which I am already slightly concerned about seen as considerable cash
has been spent on musicians/composer to the tune of $6,000.00 approx.
( I don't want to be the weak link in the chain)

I am dubious about turning up with pro (but not high end) equipment and
making a recording, I said I can do stereo pairs and you get what is recorded on the day, as soon as we go into spot mics and the like then mixing costs will start to add up too I explained.

I am not quite sure how to proceed I suspect there is around $300-600 in the kitty
for recording and possibly mixing.

I enquired about how the musicians would synch their music
to the picture and would they have a video available on record day and he said
they would not, I asked how they would synch to emotive events in the film and he said the composer would be working on that (no mention of a conductor?)

I would really like to be involved but I sense I might be biting off more than I can chew considering this persons budget does not even seem to stretch much further than the hire of a few KM184's?

This person has never done this before (so I am told)

Any advice.

Thanks

[mohthom]

If you take a fee that's too low, you devalue the work that you (and consequently all recordists and producers everywhere) do.

How much are the performers getting paid?

What about the director? Cameramen? Runners?

Don't feel that it's your responsibility to make up for any shortfall created by the lack of planning of a film producer. From my experience, sound for film ALWAYS has a problem or two that they want fixed at no cost - and normally ends up taking a lot of time and effort.

Surely it's everyone's goal to be high-quality low-cost - and the only way you get those kind of products is (just ask Plush - I do listen occasionally) is to open a sweatshop. Charge a fair rate.

On a personal level, I try not to charge people based on the equipment I take to gigs - I let my clients know that I'm the guy that can make a recording that sounds like X (insert sample here) using the equipment that's included in my rate. Using 'lesser' equipment does devalue your business for the simple reason that you're only as good as your last recording - and if you're content to make second rate recordings for second rate budgets then you have to be ready to be seen as a second rate recordist.

There is only one other thing to consider - are you likely to win any awards with the film? I have taken on film jobs at a lower than normal rate in the knowledge that the director's already won awards and was likely to win more. It's very useful to be able to say, 'well I won award X on film Y.'

Do enquire as to what is required of you regarding sync - if they haven't already cut the film then they can cut to the music after it's been recorded. If that's your job (to make the music fit) and not the composers, add as many zeros to the end of the bill as you see fit . . .

NEVER believe a film producer that has forked over serious cash for cameramen and composers that says they have nothing left. It's normally a big fat lie. The job of the producer is to keep costs down, not to keep to a strict moral and ethical code promoting supporting fellow artists. Essentially they work on the basis that if there's anything left at the end, then that's their wage. Go figure . . .

That said, film music is great fun. Please don't be put off by my pessimistic view of sound for film - it's just something I don't do unless I *really* need to pay the bills!

MohThoM

[phil.]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

I am assuming that the composer is working to picture.....

I would really like to be involved but I sense I might be biting off more than I can chew........

Any advice.

Hey XLR2XLR,

My advice would be to get a lot more information as to how this project exactly will unfold and what will be asked from you. Once you know the details you can decide whether you want to get involved or not and make up a quote for your costs! Don't let others dictate how much money is left for your service tutt

A detailed chat with the head of this project seems absolutely neccesary!

Good luck!

phil.

[Plush]

Don't take this job. It's an insult to you.

$ 600.00 gets a couple of hours of set-up time in the real world. I smell a problem which is that this person will want a lot of "fix-up" work and you'll end up doing this for free.
As described now, without extra work, you'll be mixing it for free. That does not seem right.


What you have described is a joke.

[mohthom]

Plush, I'm surprised!

There's a real opportunity here for us to open a real-life, bona fide sweat shop in the UK, and you're not on board?

I jest, but that's exactly what you'd be signing up for if you don't nail down an agreement before even plugging in your first microphone.

Also, I see that you're in the UK as well (where abouts are you based?).

If that's the case, don't forget that your rent is likely to be double that of most of our American friends, and gear is around 1.4 times the cost over here too. After you've paid yourself to record, mix and sync (out of £300 - barely a week's money at minimum wage, and for me at least only a couple of weeks rent/mortgage), how are you going to pay for the equipment you've bought? How are you going to afford to maintain it? How are you going to pay petrol to get there for god's sake! I just hope that they're providing the facility, otherwise give it up . . .

If it's a feature film (which is what you stated in the original post), then there's likely to be more than an hour of music. How long does it take you to mix an hour of music and spit it out in the right format? I bet it's longer than a week from microphones up to handing over the CD.

If I get from the original post that you intend to hire equipment for this project as well (!!!!!) who's expected to pay for that?

Film sound is great experience, but you only make the mistake of under-quoting once . . .

MohThoM

[XLR2XLR]

Hi there, well that's why I wanted some opinions.

As far as quoting I have explained very simply what my fee per day involves.

Recording 2 - 3 stereo pairs of mics and passing over the DVD-R of the audio
captured, I would hire nothing and hey... haven't we all been through quiet periods?

This person tells me they are broke and I am offering to do a recording as best as
I can in a days work.

I appreciate the replies as they suggest I may be opening a can of worms should I
be hired for such a task.

[ghellquist]

My two cents on the questions. Not that I really can see the exact situation.

It could be great fun, and well having fun is part of what life should evolve around. It could also evolve into weeks of editing without getting paid followed by lots of bad words and maybe even som litigations. A lot of it depends on the contract you write. The contract is the place where to in writing really define the expectations you have on each other.

Things that might get into your contract, in writing, could be:
- This contract is the entire and full agreement between xx, as recording engineer and yy, as producer. Any additional requirements or stipulations has to be given in writing and signed by both parties in order to be valid and binding.
- We both agree that I have professional knowledge and experience allowing me to create an acceptable level of finished product. The level of expectations on the finished product is reflected in the very low price the producer is paying for my work.
- I will arrive january 31 at <insert adress> at 08:05 with the following equipment as a minimum (list included)
- I will setup my equipment according to my professional experience and the instructions given by the producer. The time schedule should allow for at least one hour of setup ... (specify that you need power and a room and such things).
- I will then record until 20.00 maximum latest. Lunch 30 min shall be scheduled between 11.30 and 13.00, otherwise lunch 30 minutes by default starts at 13.00. No recording during lunch.
....
- the days recordings will be delivered on DVD to the producer only on presentation of cash or a personal check, no company checks are accepted.

- no work after february 15 can ever be considered included in this contract. All work after that date has to have a written order and will be charged at xx per hour.
- I accept no further damages than forfeiting the fee of the recording.

And so on, write exactly what you expect. Be explicit and write more than you think is needed. Make sure that you work this over together with the producer so that he states exactly his expectaions on you down to details. After you both know exactly what you both expect, then it might still be that you will walk away. You will then also know exactly why you walk away. It is a very good idea for you to both sign a written statement why you walked away from making an agreement -- people are known to badmouth others when turns turn sour.

Gunnar

[Roland]

Just by the approach you had and what they are saying I can tell you it's "amateur night". I don't know any self respecting musicians who would take this job and I can tell you they would cost a lot more than $300 for the day! I doubt anything will come of it, but leave well alone it's not worth it on any level unless they stomp up a serious budget. At a quick guesstimate say one hours worth of music the musician budget for about 15 players would run 5-10k $, thats more than they are talking about for the entire music budget.

Regards


Roland

[XLR2XLR]

Thanks guys it makes sense, I could VERY easily become the unintentional scapegoat
for all shortcomings.

I don't undertstand why the producer has not organized his budget in a manner
relative to common sense.

Ghellquist thanks very much for you contract advice, I did not even consider such a
sensible move should I have wanted to become involved.

Apparently there was some kind of fund for the musicians payment, the composer is on $4K approx
I suspect a massive part of said budget.

[joelpatterson]

They've spent all kinds of money on a composer and players and there's no money left to record the thing???????????????????????????

[loujudson]

This entire kind of operation is exactly why I got out of film and video work. Not worth the hassle unless the glamour feeds your personal needs... My last day on a film shoot was when they had worked me 22 hours on 8 hours low rate pay. I walked and never looked back. Directors - Feh!

L

PS - I meant film sound in general. I continue to get occasional music recording gigs for film, but always charge what it is worth and hand over the tracks. If the budget is below my standards I don't do it. Period.