live recording and broadcast mixing

[marty lester]

hey remote world-

first off, i'm very humble and small-time...so having said that:

i might be getting involved with a project that has a live-performance
component that'll be multi-tracked for later audio-post mixing.
no problems there...i have a 24 channel 3-way splitter (hoping
it's 24 channels or less).

the hard part is i'll also be doing a simultaneous mix that'll go
into the cameras, then quickly edited and uploaded to a web sight.

i'm toying with renting (or buying?) a Yamaha DM-1000 because
i'm familiar with them, they have digital eq and compression
on every channel, and flexible routing.

so here are my questions:
1. anyone have any better suggestions for a mixing board? money
is definitely an object so an analog console w/ outboard compression
is probably not going to happen.

2. how should i get into the mixer? i guess i'd rather not take
analog outputs of my HD24 (i think i'll be using that as my safety
recording device) into the mixer in case the HD24 sh*ts the bed
somehow. that's never happened to me but...

i'm guessing i could patch out of one of my splits into the club's split
so they can have a separate FOH and monitor feed, take another split
into my recorders, and the 3rd split right into my mixer. sounds kind
of complicated, but i bet that's the smart way to go. thoughts?

thanks a ton...i hope this gig happens so i can post some war stories after
the fact.

happy new year,
marty.

[locosoundman]

I assume we are talking mic-level splitting here. Splitting between the mixer and the recorder is probably not the way to go for two reasons: if you are on a tight budget you will need to get an additional 24-channels of mic pre's (if you don't already have them) and/or if you are splitting before the HD24, you are probably not going to be monitoring what is going on with the recording - not a good option for me.

If you are using the board pre's, you can use the channel inserts to feed the HD24 and return the signal to the board. This is more desirable from a recording standpoint since you will not be committed to all of the fader moves, EQ settings, etc. Another benefit is the fact that you are monitoring what is going to tape - if something is distorting (or not connected) you will know about it and be able to address it as it's going down.

From a "bullet-proof broadcast mix" standpoint, feeding the HD24 with channel direct-outs is the better option, but you are stuck with all of the decisions you made while mixing (unless you have a board with pre-fader direct outs). Of course, you will also need a mixer that has a direct or line out for each channel (I am not familiar with the DM1000).

Since this isn't a live-to-air broadcast, I'd be more concerned about the multitrack recording. Set the HD24 for input monitoring so if something does go wrong it should still pass signal.

[noamraz]

Do you record the SMPTE timecode or use external W/C distribution?

While designing the Rig for this task, Keep in mind that you should take care of the syncing...

Best regards and Good luck, Noam.

[LX3]

Personally, I would monitor and mix from the outputs of the HD24. The Alesis is very reliable in my experience... the only issue is those odd occasions when it decides to drop out of record (yeah, I know, ), but when it does do that, at least it still passes signal.

Seems more important to me that you're able to monitor the audio that your HD24 is receiving.

The other big plus is that if you record the sound check you can work on your mix after the band leave the stage. Program up your mix and fx, save it, and you're good to go... well, until the guitar player decides to turn himself up that is.

Paul

[LX3]

Originally Posted by LX3

The other big plus is that if you record the sound check you can work on your mix after the band leave the stage. Program up your mix and fx, save it, and you're good to go... well, until the guitar player decides to turn himself up that is.

I meant to say, it also enables you to loop the twenty seconds where the band actually bothered playing together during the soundcheck! Is anyone else finding the quality of soundchecks is really nosediving?

[RobAnderson]

Soundcheck? What soundcheck?

Half the time, the only soundcheck I get is the orchestra tuning.

[Gerax]

I agree with what's been said above: use the mixer to monitor the tape outputs from the recorder; even though this means you need another set of preamps to feed the mics to, it's the best way to be sure of what you are recording.
I always do it this way, as I use a separate rack of pres going straight into my recorders (primary and backup via a dual digital output on the pres) and then put my mixer at the back. Whenever I've had to provide a broadcast mix feed or a reference mix for video crews I took it from the output of the mixer, the analog balanced one, as the "tape out" goes to a CD burner for a quick ref CD after show. It's the best way. If you mind of spikes or levels getting funny for the broadcast, then just use some compression on the master insert (something like an SSL X-Logic /FXG384 or Alan Smart C1 will work fine) to keep things safe and have that polished finshed sound.

Hope this helps

L.G.

[marty lester]

Originally Posted by Gerax

I agree with what's been said above: use the mixer to monitor the tape outputs from the recorder; even though this means you need another set of preamps to feed the mics to, it's the best way to be sure of what you are recording.
I always do it this way, as I use a separate rack of pres going straight into my recorders (primary and backup via a dual digital output on the pres) and then put my mixer at the back. Whenever I've had to provide a broadcast mix feed or a reference mix for video crews I took it from the output of the mixer, the analog balanced one, as the "tape out" goes to a CD burner for a quick ref CD after show. It's the best way. If you mind of spikes or levels getting funny for the broadcast

L.G.

thanks to all for the consideration/input.

i might just take the approach of going out of my HD24 into a mixer for
confidence and ease. i should mention that i'll probably have to outfit
myself w/ a full-on PT rig for recording w/ TC sync since the HD24 doesn't
do that w/out some trickery...and since i'll want a redundant recorder
anyway, my HD24 will serve that purpose.

i had planned on going out of my Presonus mic pres to the 2 different
recording mediums (media?) using a combination of lightpipe, analog, and
AES/EBU outputs of the Presonus...a pretty cool feature of Digimax 96.

in another thread, someone mentioned using a half-normaled patch bay
as their post mic-pre line level splitter. that's pretty cool too.

oh, and there will be no sound checks between bands. i'm just loving
that, of course. guess i'll have one of my people watching the mic
pres and levels while i'm mixing my sweaty little ass off on the fly.

thanks again to everyone...i'll keep you posted if this gig comes through.

marty.

[LX3]

No soundchecks in the afternoon? Not even for the headline?

(get together with the sound crew and do a line-check between bands).

[thedoner]

Originally Posted by marty lester

thanks to all for the consideration/input.

i might just take the approach of going out of my HD24 into a mixer for
confidence and ease. i should mention that i'll probably have to outfit
myself w/ a full-on PT rig for recording w/ TC sync since the HD24 doesn't
do that w/out some trickery...and since i'll want a redundant recorder
anyway, my HD24 will serve that purpose.

i had planned on going out of my Presonus mic pres to the 2 different
recording mediums (media?) using a combination of lightpipe, analog, and
AES/EBU outputs of the Presonus...a pretty cool feature of Digimax 96.

Hey Marty,
This descibes my current setup pretty closely. Digimax 96's with the analog outs feeding Pro Tools HD (Primary recorder) and the lightpipe outs feeding the HD24XR (backup recorder). Works like a charm. If you go this route you can monitor, and create your boadcast mix (feed to the cameras) within PT and give them a stereo out. You may also want to record that mix to a stereo track in PT as well in case something gets screwy with the feed to the video guys.
I don't know how complex you want to get with the broadcast mix, but I'd try to keep the plug ins to the bare essentials, and limit your choices to plugs that are less processor intensive. You'll want to keep that system as unencumbered as possible.
The only real downside is having to work your boadcast mix with a mouse, unless you want to lug around a Command 8. Good luck with the gig!
-Gordon