Newbie Audio Question

[andsonic]

A little background: I am a recording engineer with 20 years (gee, I'm getting old) experience. I work in a studio under "new" management (since 2004). The former owner used to shoot "concert" videos in the facility during the internet bubble. We're primarily a studio that records projects produced by the current owner.

The Situation: A touring band came in to do a "house" concert. They liked the vibe so much that they want to come back and shoot a concert video. We have a local videographer who does good work and will handle the shooting & editing. I will be recording the audio. The plan is to shoot 2 concerts & a dress rehearsal. Then we will select the best takes from the pool.

I would love to get any hints, heads up, warnings, bad or good advice anyone can offer.

I will probably be recording into Logic Pro 8. The video dude edits in Final Cut Pro. I would like to record at 48k, 24bit. I think picture will be cut to sound.

Looking forward to some feedback.

[Andrew Mottl]

Hey there,

make sure you clock your system to the video reference signal! Otherwise your multitracks are bound to lose sync to the picture in the edit. And that is NO fun :-)

[RadioFilter]

Communicate with the videographer and find out if there will be any pull up or pull down necessary. If he shoots at 30 fps and the final will be delivered at 29.97, that 0.1% difference will affect your audio synch.

[Andrew Mottl]

Oh yes, I forgot you Americans have to think about that :-P :-)

[Frank S.]

If you lock to the same clock and timecode you will have no issues with sync.

[jacobfarron]

Sorry... I have to, it's just a pet peeve of mine. Please do not call 29.97 non drop 30fps. The only true 30 is 30p which is extremely high bandwidth and not very common. I have producers fly in from all over yaking about 30 drop and 30 non drop and it drives me up the wall! It's almost as bad as saying 24p if you mean 23.976 for video. I don't use Logic, but in Pro Tools you can set your session to 30, even 30 drop, which is incorrect for most situations If you don't say what you mean, somewhere along the line it will confuse someone, and potentially screw up all of your sync.

There are a million frame rates... but in no way are 29.97 / 29.97 DF ever 30p.
Again, I apologize :)

[starcrash13]

Originally Posted by jacobfarron

Sorry... I have to, it's just a pet peeve of mine. Please do not call 29.97 non drop 30fps.

You're right in that 29.97 NDF is not the same thing as 30 FPS. Unfortunately, this and 24p meaning 23.98 are common usage which can cause confusion. However, in this case, I think RadioFilter was using a different context. Perhaps he meant film speed rather than "30 FPS" and he is using a bit of jargon to refer to shooting picture at film speed while recording sound at "video speed" which when played against the telecined picture will play out of sync. I'm not a location mixer, so someone who is should chime in, but often in film production the recordist will record at 48.048 kHz and use the 30 FPS TC setting on the digital recorder. Later, when the sound and picture are ingested, they will both be pulled down .1% to "video speed" and the picture will go through the 3:2 pulldown to create 29.97 video for the picture and sound departments to work with.

p.s. Interchanging 24p and 23.976 (23.98) doesn't bother me because it is almost always video speed and most people will not be confused by this commonly used jargon. In cases where it is actually true 24 FPS, this is usually emphasized.

[jacobfarron]

I understand. I only mention this because where I work I go between location mixing and post on a regular basis. We provide crews, equipment and post... working in everything from 35mm / super16, to digiBeta and HDcam. I only get obsessed with the specs because people call here a lot using common jargon, and since we literally can shoot every format (especially with the Varicam and Sony F900) problems can creep up if we're not diligent in specifying the exact requirements. I agree with what you're saying though - oftentimes we're reading between the lines.

[mauriciogsf]

Hi guys...

I'll post another question...

When you're working in protools there are 2 setups of timecode to be made. The first corresponds to the timecode ruler ( lots of options - 29.97 . 30. 24. 30dfps .....) and the second is the frame rate ( 2 options - 24fps or 23.98fps).

When you are are working with a film (dv) that has been recorded in 24P and converted to 29.97fps, the first option should be set at 29.97fps. thats ok.

But, what about the second option ? Should it be 23.98 or 24fps ??

Once again, I'm talking about a video that's been recorded in 24p and will be transfered to film.

Can anyone help me ???

Thank you very much guys !!!

Cheers.

[starcrash13]

As long you're using Pro Tools' internal sync and not syncing to another device (like a tape deck), it doesn't really matter how you set the Timecode and Feet+Frames. Neither of those settings will affect the actual playback speed, only the grid and ruler. If there is a F+F or TC burn-in overlay on the video, then just set the F+F or TC to correspond with that so the numbers will run in sync with your Main Counter. In the case you described - a project shot at video speed, edited at video speed, and ending up on video - this will likely mean 29.97 NDF and 23.976 F+F.

If, on the burn-in overlay, there is a semicolon separating the seconds and frames, this usually means that the picture department is using drop-frame timecode. Often inexperienced Final Cut Pro editors will unsuspectingly use this frame rate, even when unnecessary, because it is the default.

Originally Posted by mauriciogsf

Hi guys...

I'll post another question...

When you're working in protools there are 2 setups of timecode to be made. The first corresponds to the timecode ruler ( lots of options - 29.97 . 30. 24. 30dfps .....) and the second is the frame rate ( 2 options - 24fps or 23.98fps).

When you are are working with a film (dv) that has been recorded in 24P and converted to 29.97fps, the first option should be set at 29.97fps. thats ok.

But, what about the second option ? Should it be 23.98 or 24fps ??

Once again, I'm talking about a video that's been recorded in 24p and will be transfered to film.

Can anyone help me ???

Thank you very much guys !!!

Cheers.