Sequoia for mixes ???

[20100db]

Hi,

What do you thing about Sequoia for doing mixes itb ???
The sound, the flexibility and the automation ?
Thanks

[Sinewave]

Hey Vince , using Samp/Sequoia for mixing is great idea that a lot of people are slowly beginning to realize , it's stability ,sound and flexibility has no equal IMHO for ITB mixing and assembling mixes for mastering.
It's a favorite of Recording and mix engineer Husky Hoskulds , you can read what he thinks about it on his website , which features an interview from Tape op .
Samp/sequoia started out life as an audio oriented app (like Pro Tools ) so it's strong in that area. it's Midi has come on strong in the last couple of releases , especially so in V 10.
To bad v 10 has not gotten the attention it deserves ,it probably is the best so far and the Samp/sequoia users are really enjoying it.

[fifthcircle]

Automation took a huge step up in Version 10... I've been using Sequoia since V 5.5 and I won't use anything else for post. I do a lot of my recording in Pro Tools, but all mixing and mastering is done in Sequoia.

--Ben

[cooker]

Samplitude is the only thing thats avalible which you can use to make everything sound better(I mean even just by import-exporting tracks).

[andsonic]

+1 to all of the above.

Samp is simply the best for mixing.

[MT Groove]

After using Samplitude for mixing for the last year and a half, I cannot see myself going back to anything else (Pro Tools, Digital Performer, Nuendo). Sequoia is the next step up from Samplitude with added features. The object oriented editing/mixing capabilities opens up a whole new world and creates different possibilities during mixing/mastering.

[allencollins]

I started using Samplitude in 96. For the last 7 years Ive switched between Nuendo PT & Logic. The last year I've been using Samplitude again and it is clearly the best sounding DAW. I like Nuendo's work flow slightly better but you just can't beat the speed and sound of Samplitude

[Solar]

Hey fellas!

Was wondering if, because i'm on Nuendo, if by getting the Samplitude SE, i would be able to mix in it without limitation regarding Automations even though i know that the big limitation would be 48 tracks? Will you guys suggest me to try and see the feel with SE version? Or better not even bother trying the Se version?

Thank you

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by cooker

Samplitude is the only thing thats avalible which you can use to make everything sound better(I mean even just by import-exporting tracks).

INTERESTING..CAN YOU ELABORATE PLEASE?

Originally Posted by MT Groove

After using Samplitude for mixing for the last year and a half, I cannot see myself going back to anything else (Pro Tools, Digital Performer, Nuendo). Sequoia is the next step up from Samplitude with added features. The object oriented editing/mixing capabilities opens up a whole new world and creates different possibilities during mixing/mastering.

can you please explai this feature?

thanks guys!

[matyas]

Samplitude really is the best thing going with regards to mixing and editing, although lately I've been getting into Logic 8 and have been digging that too. (Obviously Logic is Mac only and Sam is Windows only, but I have both a Mac and PC and the Mac is an Intel machine that can also run Windows.) I just got Sam 10 but haven't installed it yet so I can't comment. I will say that Samplitude's default plugins are great. To the person considering Samplitude LE: don't bother. If you're short on cash, go for the Sam-for-Rent program. I really don't know why this hasn't gotten more publicity. You get free upgrades as long as you're in the program, and you pay something like 30 euros (and you don't have to be in Europe) per month.

[lpkyer]

Been using Samplitude for a year after years of cubase/nuendo....tried few demos like sonar but nothing beats Samplitude for Rock recording !!

[Solar]

Originally Posted by matyas

Samplitude really is the best thing going with regards to mixing and editing, although lately I've been getting into Logic 8 and have been digging that too. (Obviously Logic is Mac only and Sam is Windows only, but I have both a Mac and PC and the Mac is an Intel machine that can also run Windows.) I just got Sam 10 but haven't installed it yet so I can't comment. I will say that Samplitude's default plugins are great. To the person considering Samplitude LE: don't bother. If you're short on cash, go for the Sam-for-Rent program. I really don't know why this hasn't gotten more publicity. You get free upgrades as long as you're in the program, and you pay something like 30 euros (and you don't have to be in Europe) per month.

Hey Matyas. Thanx for the answer but can you detail more regarding Sam Se? I mean will be really a waist to get to understand Samplitude environment and try to see how the features work from Automation, recording, and so on? Thanx, any feedback is welcome

[fifthcircle]

Samp SE is really crippled. It has the basic functionality and it uses the same summing engine (ie it has the same sound), but all the cool features are in Samp Pro and Sequoia.

SE is a great place to start so you can get the feel, but you'll want to upgrade for any serious work.

--Ben

[kraznet]

Originally Posted by MT Groove
After using Samplitude for mixing for the last year and a half, I cannot see myself going back to anything else (Pro Tools, Digital Performer, Nuendo). Sequoia is the next step up from Samplitude with added features. The object oriented editing/mixing capabilities opens up a whole new world and creates different possibilities during mixing/mastering.

can you please explai this feature?

thanks guys! __________________
Peace.

Reuven Amiel.

With object oriented editing you can cut audio into as many sections /clips as you like and open a separate Obect Editor for each clip . This leaves you with amazing potential for non distructive processing . Also with Mastering you can have an object Editor for each track which means you can insert your mastering plugs individually for each object and then tweak levels to taste then burn/render your Master .This is the Object Editor :



Regards
Kraznet

[fifthcircle]

Basically, it is an extremely powerful way to do a clip-based automation. All clips are being processed in real time- nothing is rendered. Also, all processing happens as you see it-fades and all. This can be especially cool when you want to automate between disperate plugin types.

I use a combination of fader and object automation in my mixes. I've done full object and full fader mixes as well...

--Ben

[dubrichie]

sorry, but i have to disagree.

i changed from Cubase to Samp earlier this year (having changed from PT to Cubase about 2 years previously) with high hopes based on its feature set and lauded reputation for sound quality but am now about to jump back to PT, specifically HD.

Samp is NOT stable enough or RELIABLE enough for serious, regular, professional work, IME.

it is buggy as all hell and demands far too much pandering and tweaking. true, it is far "deeper" and theoretically "more flexible and powerful" than any other DAW, but all of this is so goddamn awkward, fnnicky and downright mysterious (pathetic literature / manuals) that it is NOT user-friendly to actually reap any real world benefits from.

it COULD and indeed SHOULD be the best DAW out there, but the BASICS simply are NOT THERE.

EG: routing of muted aux tracks to the stereo bus during mixdown?!?!? now THAT was embarrassing when i had to have mixes done for a deadline... SURPRISE! WTF?!?!

also, the ERRATIC PDC is totally unacceptable. FORGET using hardware inserts and DSP / high latency plugins at the same time.

im sorry, but unless the BASICS of sample-accurate playback / record / routing are in place a DAW is a non-starter.

i really, really, REALLY liked sooo much about Samp. i was initially so IMPRESSED by it ffs, but when it came down to the nuts and bolts of reliable mixing... "does what it says on the tin, on time, every time"... it was just NOT happening.

and they havent even fixed most, if ANY of these SERIOUS ISSUES to do with BASIC FUNCTIONALITY in the latest, greatest V10. i dont want to be a beta tester for my main professional tool / working environment... and to pay a pretty penny for the privilege. bells and whistles be damned. surround panner on any and every channel? coooool! doesnt perform the basic functions of a mixer, tape deck and effects rack? USELESS.

and the support is a disaster. fuggedaboutit.

[cooker]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

INTERESTING..CAN YOU ELABORATE PLEASE?


can you please explai this feature?

thanks guys!

Sorry I wasn't around for a while. Well most have noticed that every DAW has its own playback sound even when playing back whatever thats recorded. Protools is glassy, wavelab is bright, and nuendo is a little dryer then wavelab. These sure are personal reviews but samplitude sounds warmer to my ears. Samp. especially plays back mp3s much better than any other player. I recommend my friends to get at least the cheaper versions of samp. for summing or mastering.

[kraznet]

EG: routing of muted aux tracks to the stereo bus during mixdown?!?!? now THAT was embarrassing when i had to have mixes done for a deadline... SURPRISE! WTF?!?!

Maybe using Mute Inactive is the solution

[dubrichie]

nope, afraid not.

it's a known issue and totally unacceptable for "The Master of Pro Audio".

ymmv.

[kraznet]

Originally Posted by dubrichie

nope, afraid not.

it's a known issue and totally unacceptable for "The Master of Pro Audio".

ymmv.

Can you explain exactly what aux bus issue you're talking about? From what I understand you're saying that during mixdown muted aux tracks are still added to the mix?

[PapillonIrl]

Originally Posted by kraznet

Can you explain exactly what aux bus issue you're talking about? From what I understand you're saying that during mixdown muted aux tracks are still added to the mix?

Never had this issue...can't seem to reproduce it either. I'm on Samp Pro 8.31.

Nathan

[computa]

I've mixed (2) major label albums on Samplitude v9 this past year. Super stable. perfect for audio.

We have an HD rig as well but that was tied up during both instances. I've been staying in samp more and more.

[siriusbliss]

Samplitude/Sequoia is indeed the best for mixing. Hands down.

Rock solid here. Integration with external hardware (eventide, TC electronics) is easy, and I just got automation configured with a new Yamaha 01V96V2 mixer and Sonicore (formerly Creamware) Scope Pro audio cards.

It's object oriented, non-volutile approach is simply the best!

The famous 'sound engine' is the best to my ears.

I've been getting more and more remix projects from studios/producers who have used PT/Nuendo/DP, and they are all very satisfied with the results.

Greg

[Sinewave]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraznet View Post
Can you explain exactly what aux bus issue you're talking about? From what I understand you're saying that during mixdown muted aux tracks are still added to the mix?
Never had this issue...can't seem to reproduce it either. I'm on Samp Pro 8.31.

Nathan

nor have I.

it is buggy as all hell and demands far too much pandering and tweaking.

While every Daw out there is "buggy " IME most people who have recently switched to another DAW wants there new app to behave like thier old one or they want to be up and running in no time with the new app.
While I'm not saying that all the things you have listed are not valid especially in your experience, there are people that have a stable solution with Samp, yes some things don't work right away but the Pros of the app outweigh the cons IMHO.

[dubrichie]

Originally Posted by kraznet

Can you explain exactly what aux bus issue you're talking about? From what I understand you're saying that during mixdown muted aux tracks are still added to the mix?

exactly.

V 9.1.1 here.

others have reported this on the Samp user forum.

[dubrichie]

Originally Posted by Sinewave

While every Daw out there is "buggy " IME most people who have recently switched to another DAW wants there new app to behave like thier old one or they want to be up and running in no time with the new app.
While I'm not saying that all the things you have listed are not valid especially in your experience, there are people that have a stable solution with Samp, yes some things don't work right away but the Pros of the app outweigh the cons IMHO.

i understand and agree with your first point. all DAWS do silly things every now and then, it is the nature of computaters.

and i do very much like the many "pros" of Samp.

but i just don't feel that i can rely on it to perform consistently. it IS buggy-er than ProTools and even Cubendo. i'm not even asking much of it really, mixing fairly straightforward rock and roll and hip hop productions, but these wacky "spanners-in-the-works" keep popping up at random and most inopportune times.

i will give it another shot, another chance, but am not comfortable with the idea of relying on it for paying gigs with deadlines.

i have been building and tweaking computers for 10 years, i know their winsome ways well and right now all i want is a stable recording and mixing platform that i can turn on and use to work, to make music, with the least possible consideration for the fact that i am in fact using a damn computer to do so. in my experience Samp is not capable of doing this for me.

Samp could and indeed should be the best DAW around based on its depth of feature set, but there are currently too many bugs / issues with the "bread and butter" of functionality and reliability that are essential for any "reference standard professional platform". this is where ProTools HD excels and thus why it remains the "standard" in the face of the "native power revolution" or whatever you want to call it.

[MH 3]

Hi Richie,

there is always the "mix to file" option to avoid most of the problems you had in the past.

Regards

Marcus

[oudplayer]

For the way I work with Samplitude, I find it to be as stable as protools (HD or LE, 6.7-7.3, doesn't matter). I haven't had the problems with plugin latency nor muted aux or anything being talking about. There are a couple sequences of operations that can cause problems (typically, with the CD burning routine if the disc media is bad), but typically Samp is nice enough to let you save a session backup before you need to quit out of the program. Since it takes 3 seconds to launch on our computer, restarting the software is No Big Deal. They're not a problem when tracking or mixing.

I've done a lot of full albums in Samplitude. My record was a 126 track mix with pretty complex object edits, plugins all over the place on objects, etc. The only problem I had was hard drive speed and streaming that much audio, but I would have had that problem on ANY DAW.

I'll agree, support can sometimes be below what it should be. The samp user forum is a strange place; the DUC community is more supportive of its users overall (though I wouldn't give Digi credit for that).

If you can grok samplitude and make it work for you (the learning curve is a bit steep, and when I mean learning curve I don't mean just how to find some hack way to accomplish a task but having to learn the best way to do tasks you thought you knew how to do in other DAWs but now can do differently), it's a great platform. But you have to be flexible in your idea of how a DAW should work. I think recording engineers with an object-oriented programming background are ideal candidates to become samplitude users. It's less intuitive to those who like protools' interface and tape-machine like linearity.

[laser]

Sequoia owner for 5+ years.

It was the best program for mixing five years ago. I auditioned several DAWs before choosing it. Things have changed quite a bit in the last few years.

Today, people I know who own Pro Tool studios laugh at me for the things they can do easily and with good stability that I can't.

Some examples:
1) I want to use a controller like they do. I mean a controller that feels like an analog board. Pro Tools and Nuendo have several options (the Pro Tool studio owners I know have a Control 24 and are hoping to upgrade to a C!24 or D-Command soon). No hope to have this using Sequoia--best I can get is the Mackie, and even that is limited with Sequoia.

2) I want to route 24 outs at 88kHz to my RADAR converters (which requires AES/EBU). Pro Tools and Nuendo have no problem with this. The only realiable method in Sequoia is to use the RME PCI card which will take 4 PCI slots. I would like to use the Lynx AES16 and only use two PCI slots, but Sequoia has stability problems with Lynx--which they blame on Lynx.

3) Using UAD cards and object editing are mutually exclusive. Each time you use a UAD FX in an object, it counts as one incident. This uses up your UAD bandwidth real fast.

4) Few add-ons are tested with Samplitude or Sequoia. Read the boxes--they are always guaranteed to work with Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, Nuendo and Sonar. Very few test their products with Samplitude or Sequoia. You roll the dice on compatibility.

5) It appears that the developers really don't listen to their user base. Dozens of users have begged them to just fix the bugs and make the software more stable--forget about new features. Each new release, Sequoia trumpets their new features, usually adding a few new plugs in that you could easily buy as a VST somewhere else. It very much gives the appearance that bringing in new customers is more important than satisfying their existing base.

If things like this are not important to you, then Sequoia is a great piece of kit. Best to say that for Mastering applications, or Mixing totally ITB and with a mouse, Sequoia/Samplitude is a good choice.

Personally, these things are important to me--so, I truly regret getting Sequoia. I'll be switching in the near future.

Laser

[fifthcircle]

Trying not to get into a flame war and be a cheerleader, but have you looked at Ver 10? Pretty much every feature in it is responding to user requests.

Many of the problems were related to the old high-latency engine. Worked great on crappy computers (I was doing 50-60 channel mixes on a P3 866MHz machine), but also meant lots of work-arounds.

At version 9, the engine was completely redesigned. What is the result? Since then, there is a completely reworked automation system, sidechaining, advanced video integration (in Sequoia), etc... Is there still room for improvement? Sure. Is any DAW perfect? No.

I've heard of a number of these issues, but even as a beta tester, I have yet to run into most of them, even trying to make the computer do it. Part of the stability you get with Pro Tools is related to the fact that you MUST use Digi hardware. Even M-Powered, you are using a small set of hardware. Really means that the testing and reproduction of problems becomes so much easier. I've specifically tested the aux issue numerous times and I cannot make it do it.

The result for me? I use Pro Tools for a lot of the recording I do. I have LE on a laptop that I bring into the field with a 002R and Mytek Converters. I use LE/Mpowered/HD systems at various client's facilities. Some recording is done directly into Sequoia, and all of my mixing and post is done in Sequoia. I use the tools that I need to so that the job is done well. It means often multiple DAWs, but so be it. My clients certainly aren't complaining.

--Ben