Minir82 or Nagra PII+

[amfortas2006]

I want to make on location recordings and am searching for the best hand-held recording device that can take 2 XLR inputs, has phantom-powering, and works on batteries.

Till now I found the minir82 and the Nagra PII+.
But im wondering if the Nagra is really good for more then journalism application, and the minir82 seems like a device that is more intended for use with an external clock and a mixer...
It seems that with a Nagra one also needs a package of cables and stuff that they overpriced.

What Im searching for is the best sound to get with my schoeps cmc6 ugxt matched pair recording classical music.

How good are these in comparision with highest quality recorders?

Wich one has better sound, and are there other ones of that quality or better?



Thanks!

[videoteque]

What about the Korg MR1000???

[amfortas2006]

Originally Posted by videoteque

What about the Korg MR1000???

Thanks!

I checked out the Korg MR1000. Seems ok, but im not sure about KORG as a serious competitor to NAGRA or SONOSAX?
It is great that it records 1-Bit/5.6448MHz and all, but how does it sound in comparision to great recorders?

How are the A/D converters?

And it seems a bit to oversized for what im searching for. Otherwise i would have already tought about Nagra V or Sound Devices or similar.. It has to be smaller.

[Baithak]

Originally Posted by amfortas2006

Thanks!

I checked out the Korg MR1000. Seems ok, but im not sure about KORG as a serious competitor to NAGRA or SONOSAX?
It is great that it records 1-Bit/5.6448MHz and all, but how does it sound in comparision to great recorders?

How are the A/D converters?

And it seems a bit to oversized for what im searching for. Otherwise i would have already tought about Nagra V or Sound Devices or similar.. It has to be smaller.

If size is more important then it is difficult to have a smaller, more elegant excellent solution than the MiniR82. As you surmise however, it is really intended as a backend to a front end of some kind (preferably a Sonosax digital mixer :-) It could also be a intermediate solution that Sonosax put out while developing an integrated version of the same device. It looks like they are going to put it into quite a few of their mixers. If you need more than two channels and don't like the 744 for its size, this may be the only option.

If size is less important (and you can live with two channels) but sound quality is paramount the Korg MR1000 is difficult to beat for a location recorder in its size class. I just recorded a live festival with about 25 acts in the space of four days where I was mixing with a SD 442 front end to a Korg in DSD mode, and simultaneously to a 744 both using their internal converters and the difference between them is huge. On no artist did I prefer the SD sound to the Korg sound. In fact, I was monitoring live on the Grace Design 902 and while the difference between the analog feed from the mixer and the 744 output was clear, it was not that easy to tell between the analog and the Korg output.

Sorry don't have much input on the Nagra ... Good luck,

Baithak,

PS: I wouldn't even look at the Korg MR-1 because it has very poor s/n ratio and the noise is quite audible on quiet sources. I have one and not yet seen serious use.

[amfortas2006]

Did anyone actually hear the sonosax minir82?
I would like to have a small recording done with it, to hear to...
Not bird-songs, an orchestra or similar...

[amfortas2006]

PS: I wouldn't even look at the Korg MR-1 because it has very poor s/n ratio and the noise is quite audible on quiet sources. I have one and not yet seen serious use.[/quote]


Thats exactly why Im not thinking much about other Korg products, they often make compromises, and go for mainstream, it seems to me.

I already had mainstream, I want no compromises now. Not from the point of performance and what it can do. It can be 16 bit, 44100, as long as it sounds fantastic.

Cause these days any device records at at least 96kHz, but the only question is, how good???

If you ask ten tenors to sing a high c, and they can do it all, doesnt mean that all of them do it right.

[boojum]

I am very happy with a Sound Devices 722, a two track recorder. They are rugged, reliable and record very well. The 744 is a four track. They are the size of a book.

Cheers

[videoteque]

I think that all the machines named in this thread, are up to level for the job. If you want to know what is best for you, you have to try them with your mics...

[amfortas2006]

Anyone with experience using Nagra PII+?

[pkautzsch]

Not PII+, but Ares BB+, which IME isn't exactly what I expected a Nagra device to be. The "big" Nagras are great, but the Ares BB+ is not. Neither sound-wise nor usability-wise. No gain pots, but buttons for 1dB steps...! Has standard phantom powered XLR inputs, though.
If you want Nagra, get the real thing, ie the Nagra V.

Else you'd probably want to get the SoundDevices stuff. Even their cheapest recorder, the 702, is, according to a friend, a great unit.
If money is an issue, "reasonable" recorders would be the Tascam HD-P2 or Fostex FR-2.

[amfortas2006]

Yeah, thats what I heard about the Ares (a device for journalists, but still a Nagra) recorder, that some 700 bucks cheaper recorders make much better recordings (you hear the buttons if you type during rec, a bad internal mike, noise problems..) Wouldnt think when you hear that its a Nagra.

That is exactly why I wanted to know about PII+...

Hope that by buying the minir82, one doesnt pay a couple of thousands more then it is worth, just because it is a Sonosax..

[videoteque]

Hope that by buying the minir82, one doesnt pay a couple of thousands more then it is worth, just because it is a Sonosax..

Don't buy it based on faith!!! Go try it somewhere!!!

[George Gilliam]

Another vote in favor of the Sound Devices 702 or 744 recorders. I have used a 702 for two years recording classical music concerts, and I am very pleased with the results. I've tried it with external mic preamps and there is a slight improvement over the internal amps--although the internals are more than just "good enough." I have also tried it with external A-D converters and, frankly, don't hear much improvement over the internals. I've tried a Mytek Stereo 96 (at 24/88.2) and the difference is subtle. However, the 702 recording at 24/176.4 with its internal A-D converters is a step up from using either its internal A-Ds or an external A-D at 24/88.2. And the capability to record simultaneously to an external firewire hard drive and internal compact flash should not be overlooked.

Buy the Sound Devices and use it. I believe you will be very satisfied with the reliability and sonic performance.

[Angus]

Haven't used the Nagra or Korg units although I've heard recordings made with each. However, I do own the Minir and have used it for a year and a half and can say something about it. I use it mostly as a backup recorder only, utilizing the 8-ch AES inputs and bypassing much of the circuitry. Sometimes, however, I use the pres and line inputs. Certainly, it is a marvel of miniaturization and one needs a much bigger box to get similar features. Sound quality is surprisingly good - typically quiet Sonosax mic pres and 2 additional channels of somewhat adjustable line inputs. However, for critical work I always choose external analog. Good feature set, good monitoring options.

A couple of caveats:

- A company doesn't exist with worse customer service. I bought an early production unit and inevitably there were a few teething problems, mostly concerning software. Expect that weeks can go by before your support inquiry is addressed and then expect to be told to mail the thing back to Switzerland for evaluation. I simply don't think they yet have the personnel to offer proper product support and that can be incredibly frustrating. Unfortunately, with all of the new products they are rolling out I would not expect this situation to improve anytime soon.

- Strangely, to my knowledge they have never released detailed specifications for the Minir and the documentation for the recorder makes that for Sequoia look like the model for clarity and completeness. You're on your own.

- It uses flaky 4200RPM Toshiba 1.8" iPod HDs that are not the last word in lont-term reliability. I've replaced mine three times because of drive failures. I've suggested to them that they switch to 1.8" SSDs but they say they haven't gotten around to testing them yet.

- Keep in mind that it doesn't have XLR mic inputs but rather Binder connectors so special cabling is required. Also, the line input is simply an 1/8 in. miniplug - not the best.

That said, there is nothing in the market even close to its size that will do what it does. I've smiled many times as I unpack a couple of Schoeps and the Minir and know that this will be good for a very decent recording. Ultimate minimalist acoustic recording setup? Minir + DPA 4060s + cables and lightweight stand.

Angus

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

Not PII+, but Ares BB+, which IME isn't exactly what I expected a Nagra device to be. The "big" Nagras are great, but the Ares BB+ is not. Neither sound-wise nor usability-wise. No gain pots, but buttons for 1dB steps...! Has standard phantom powered XLR inputs, though.
If you want Nagra, get the real thing, ie the Nagra V.

Else you'd probably want to get the SoundDevices stuff. Even their cheapest recorder, the 702, is, according to a friend, a great unit.
If money is an issue, "reasonable" recorders would be the Tascam HD-P2 or Fostex FR-2.

The NAgra BB will soon be no more I think - the new Nagra LB is about to be relrased and is slightly cheaper - and 24/192 capable.

I have got the Nagra VI at the moment, which is superb and better than the Nagra V, I think; but a bit too big for the person who started the thread.