3 best classical piano mics?

[PT6.7UZR]

Let's make this hard, no vintage mics.
You choices are limited to new mics.

In the perfect room what mic (or pair) would you grab first for recording solo classical music on a great grand piano?
What is your second choice?
Third?

Next:
In a room with poor acoustics what would you grab first?
Second?
Third?

No budget limit.

[MBishopSFX]

These are the mics I ALWAYS have on-hand for such a session and listed in the order of what I'd try: (all GREAT on piano - just depends on what I'm looking for on a given session)

Royer SF-12 or 24
Sanken CO-100k
Sennheiser MKH-800 (usually omni)
Sennheiser MKH-20
DPA-4006TL

[AB3]

DAP 4011s should be added to the list (from personal experience).
Also the AEA stereo ribbon mic is suppose to be great. (from people I trust).

[Omicron_9]

Originally Posted by PT6.7UZR

Let's make this hard, no vintage mics.
You choices are limited to new mics.

In the perfect room what mic (or pair) would you grab first for recording solo classical music on a great grand piano?
What is your second choice?
Third?

Next:
In a room with poor acoustics what would you grab first?
Second?
Third?

Just a helpful suggestion: you might want to post this in the "Remote Possibilties" forum, as that's where most of the classical recording types hang out.

Regards,
-0.9

[MBishopSFX]

Oh, and the AEA R-88!

The preamp used is just as important:

UpState Audio Sonic Lens 20/20
Forssell SMP-2
AEA TRP
Millennia HV-3D

ALL great piano preamps!

[joelpatterson]

Or then, you could take a bizzare-do approach and do what I do: two Sputniks right over two selected "ribs" of the harp (long one, down at the narrow end, 2nd-to-shortest up near the hammers) and a pair of Earthworks at the widest span of the open lid.

I like it because it really puts you inside the music, living and breathing it. I hate these "pro" (read: from a distance) arrangements where the piano ends up sounding like a crappy synthesized piano-- or not even as good as a crappy synthesized piano!

[PT6.7UZR]

Originally Posted by Omicron_9

Just a helpful suggestion: you might want to post this in the "Remote Possibilties" forum, as that's where most of the classical recording types hang out.

Regards,
-0.9

Thank you.
I will do that, even though this forum has 10 times as many eyeballs.

Moderator please delete this thread here.
I know we are not supposed to post the same thing in two places.

[piano]

Mellenia Media HV-3D plus DPA 4007's high SPL omni's (this IS THE classical piano sound and - yes it IS colored)

Hell, they all have a flavor that is nice.

or a

AKG 414 (the variant AKG recommends for instruments) with a Pendulum Audio MDP-1 tube pre amp.

Or a Royer 122 (for extra gain) with a Pendulum MDP-1

[pkautzsch]

Any decent mic will do when player, music, room, instrument are good - therefore I don't have a clear preference. Depending on the music and the player it would probably be either Neumann KM183 or Schoeps MK2 (S or non-S). I've also gotten good results with the Schoeps KFM6.
Why these? Because these are the omnis I have the easiest access to - and, honestly, haven't been too impressed by 4006s.

When the acoustics get worse, first thing would be to use eyeballs on the omnis, and if that's not enough wide cardioids (MK21), and if that's not enough, cardioids (MK4, KM184). Again, I'd use these because I have access to.

[Michiel H]

Josephson Engineering C617SET
VERY quiet, detailed, also warm... and GREAT midrange

---
michiel hollanders
product support netherlands
joystick audio

[peeder]

Originally Posted by PT6.7UZR

Thank you.
I will do that, even though this forum has 10 times as many eyeballs.

Moderator please delete this thread here.
I know we are not supposed to post the same thing in two places.

You're supposed to let the moderators move a thread if they want to, and they can merge threads if they want to. Don't delete our postings!

BTW out of my own locker on piano I would probably use 2 cascade fathead 2's and 2 AT 4051a's but this isn't likely the best thing in the world to use. Plus I don't have a piano here to try it with.

[niquest]

nice hall, good piano, decent player. pick any two. just kidding. no reason not to use one's favourite pressure transducers. mine would be at the moment mk2s, km130 or 4006, in that order. It really depends on the overall colour of the instrument and the room and how delicately or brutally your artist will hit the keys. if on the brightish side, I'd also recommend a pair of mkh20. generally like to balance two pairs in different positions against each other.

now in a real-world-situation a typical life-saver would be mk21. rejects room almost like a cardioid, responds almost like an omni in the bass register. on piano, I'd use a km143 just as happily. if it gets bad, I go for a pair of km140. nb - this goes for classical, non-close-micing jobs which is mostly what I do.

(OT: close-micing, I don't know. I just experiment all the time and am never altogether happy. last time I wasn't totally appalled was when I did a steinway d with an MS of km143 and 120 in the curve plus a 130 at the tail just under the lid. it worked well with the tango band in that room. learned that from a local engineer who did the ms with two brauner vm1 (the m-one in omni). now that sounded ex-tuh-remely smooth. unfortunately I dont own a steinway or a brauner mic. yet.)

[Plush]

Good room:

1. Sennheiser MKH 8020--sparkly and bass response to the center of the earth
2. Schoeps CMC521 pair on bar---should not be used near coincident
3. combo plate of Gefell M71s on treble side and U89 on bass side

Poor room:

I wouldn't record in a poor room.
I'd choose a different room with a really good piano or take the really good piano to a different room.

[hughesmr]

My first reach has been MK2S, but lately I'm discovering the virtues of MK21 in approx 60cm A/B ... just glorious.

Anxious to hear more about the 8020s!

[David Rick]

Solo classical piano in a good hall:

DPA 4003 (use Millennia HV-3 preamp with 130V option)
DPA 4006TL
Sennheiser MKH-800

In a poor hall:

Schoeps MK-21 (to get less hall)
Neumann TLM-193 (to get more bass)

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[Yannick]

Good hall:

SF12 or MKH800/MKH20/MKH30 in MS
In a Gracedesign preamp

Bad hall:

exactly the same, but the soundcheck would be a lot harder.

[Jim vanBergen]

Matched pairs of:

1) DPA 4007 in a great hall,k 4011 in a lousy room

2) Earthworks QTC-1 in a medium to great room, or with closed lid

3) Schoeps CMC5/MK2

4) M-S on a bright piano: Earthworks SR30 (mid) with AEA R88. Phenomenal width IMO, requres very specific placement for sweet spot.

5) Need to be hidden? Schertler or Helpinstill

As an afterthought, there were NEW piano miking systems shows at AES by Earthworks and DPA, and both sounded really, really wonderful on a lousy, noisy show floor. But they are worth your consideration, as are all of the opinions you have already gotten.

One of the problems is there are as many ways to mic a piano as there are pianos.

Hope this helps!

JvB

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Michiel H

Josephson Engineering C617SET
VERY quiet, detailed, also warm... and GREAT midrange

+1 thumbsup Has 200 volt Microtech Gefell MK221 capsule. One hot mic!

[syra]

Today I had a 14 hour remote piano session...tried a few mics before getting to the MKH800s. Perfection on this specific piano...add the 8034 and ready to go!

[Dr Bob]

If its a good hall I usually start with an SF24 in Blumlein or M/S. If the piano needs more "growl" I take out a Scheops pair, either MK2s's or Mk6's one in omni, one in fig 8 for M/S. These set ups usually turn out to be about 6' up from the floor and about 4-6' from the piano depending on the hall. The high end lift of the MK 2s "clarifies" the sound very well, although typically for Steinway D's I take a small broad cut (no more than 1.8 dB or so) around 2950 Hz with the Schoeps omnis in the halls I record in.

If I want less of the hall sound in a less than great hall, I go for Schoeps Mk 21's in either DIN or even as a spaced A/B pair usually about 40 cm apart.

I have begun fooling around some with a Jecklin disk, but so far not with any great success. I have been using KM 130's on it. Anyone had success with a disk on classical piano?

Bob Miller

[mrsteaks]

Not to "me to" it, but I usually reach for my SF-12 and use it in Blumlein or M/S, instrument and room dependent. AEA TRP as the pre.

I've used my Schoeps CMC6/2S in A B as well, sometimes along with the SF-12- either my ADL or EW Lab 102 as the pre. My Audix SCX-25 (cards) also give wonderful results.

All depend on the room and/or the instrument, and the STYLE.