Best budget live trumpet mic?

[GuitarRuss]

Hi there, I'm looking at getting a mic for horns, mostly trumpet. I have some ribbons for studio but don't want to abuse them for live gigs. I need to find something that is sturdy enough, doesn't cause too many feedback problems and is warm and fat sounding on mute trumpet. Currently the 58 sounds harsh on the mute trumpet and bothers me. I'm looking at spending less than $200.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[talbe1019]

Audio-Technica ATM35cW | Sweetwater.com

[smarsland]

Honestly, to beat a 57/58 for trumpet, you are looking at getting a Beyer M 88 TG, which is unfortunately double your budget. I'm a trumpet player, and I don't have one yet.. but hopefully sometime. Stick to the 57 and mic off-axis, at 30 degree angle, about 18" away.

-s

[PlugHead]

IMO,

Find a used Beyer M260 - you should be able to get one for around that price.

Otherwise, maybe a Kel HM-1 for cheap. I've heard them on trumpet and they work OK (better than a 57/58).

A better dynamic will be more than your budget (441 or RE-20 etc. etc.)

regards (from another brass player)

[Ken K]

How about a Sennheiser 609?

[Sounds Great]

Secret weapon for trumpet.

AKG D3600. Dual diaphragm dynamic. Very smooth. Might be hard to find though.

[Remoteness]

SM58...

It's the perfect dual purpose mic: It's great on trumpet and you can also used it like a hammer when applicable.

I'm serious!

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by Ken K

How about a Sennheiser 609?

Way too bright imo

[Adebar]

I find the Sennheiser MD441 very good for trumpet. It is clear but not sharp, has a warnth in the highs which are well defined and smooth - and it is a hyper cardiod.

Feedback.
But to be honest, never had feedback problems on trumpet with any mic.

[warhead]

The E/V ND468 is one of the tightest dynamic mics around, with a great response top to bottom.

War

[Jim vanBergen]

You have received great suggestions. All those mics are fab for trumpet.

Two more to consider on the used market: Senn 421 and E/V RE-20. Both excellent dynamic mics, and if you have a 'pet player who tends to put the bell ON the mic (a major no-no) then an RE-20 or 27 is ideal because its design impedes the proximity effect.

[RobAnderson]

I usually reach for a C414 ULS. I know it's out of your budget, but if you save up a few more bucks, you can generally get them used for under $500 and it's a good mic to have around.

Else look for a "pre-owned" M88 or even a 421. These generally go for around $200 used. Either of them will be less harsh than an SM58 and they are useful for lots of other things.

[rufus13]

If a trumpet needs a PA up to medium-venue size, everything else is waaaaaay too loud. The audience needs to STFU and turn up their Miracle Ears.

Trumpets are war machines, like bagpipes, and snare drum. Plenty loud for hearing pretty darn far in the pre-gunpowder era.

If a PA is "needed", gain at the bell is going to be low (freakin' loud), so feedback shouldn't be a problem. An omni dynamic like EV 635A is a solution without proximity effect, and is priced right.

My fans have noticed that about half of all microphoning problems can be solved with EV 635A's.

Cheers.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by rufus13

If a PA is "needed", gain at the bell is going to be low (freakin' loud), so feedback shouldn't be a problem. An omni dynamic like EV 635A is a solution without proximity effect, and is priced right.

Also low proximity effect on the D3600:

AKG Tri-Power microphones review

The instrument mics also use two different capsule designs. The D3400 ($219) and D3500 ($239) use the same capsule and are identical mics save a very recessed low-cut switch on the D3500. The D3600 ($379), which was unavailable for testing, has an interesting twist. It's a cardioid mic with greatly reduced proximity effect, achieved by using a dual-diaphragm design. The forward element covers frequencies above 500 Hz, while the rear facing element picks up the lows. Both are coupled to a phase-corrected inductive-capacitive crossover network. AKG previsouly used thie technique on thier D200 series.

[GuitarRuss]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm currently using a 58 for that purpose and it's all right except on mute trumpet. The trumpet sounds kind of shrill with the mute, there are some unpleasant harmonics that seem exaggerated by the 58. His mute-trumpet sounds great with a ribbon, but they are too fragile for gigging.

You're right about trumpet not needing a mic most of the time for small and medium venues. Finding a used 421 or m88, sounds like a good solution because they're useful for other things too.

[stirinthesauce]

I've had great results with our beyer m69 on trumpet. It is my preferred horn mic in a live setting. Nice and smooth. Also won't kill your budget. Used price is just a tad over 100.

[deve]

sm7b

[bove]

Originally Posted by GuitarRuss

The trumpet sounds kind of shrill with the mute, there are some unpleasant harmonics that seem exaggerated by the 58. His mute-trumpet sounds great with a ribbon, but they are too fragile for gigging.

Although this is a recording gear board, and not a brass player gear board, I have to mention that the trumpet player could also try a different mute.

A copper bottom mute will get you a a less "shrill" sound. (available on straight mutes or harmon mutes, you didn't mention what kind of mute we're dealing with) The musician could also also try a "fiber" straight or cup mute, which have less highs and a lot more mid-range harmonics. TrumCor makes nice fiber mutes.

Mutes are cheaper than microphones. (most of the time.)

[GuitarRuss]

Originally Posted by bove

Although this is a recording gear board, and not a brass player gear board, I have to mention that the trumpet player could also try a different mute.

A copper bottom mute will get you a a less "shrill" sound. (available on straight mutes or harmon mutes, you didn't mention what kind of mute we're dealing with) The musician could also also try a "fiber" straight or cup mute, which have less highs and a lot more mid-range harmonics. TrumCor makes nice fiber mutes.

Mutes are cheaper than microphones. (most of the time.)

Thanks, that's great advice. My trumpet player has a cup mute, that I'm quite fond of for a retro sound, but for that Miles Davis thing, the regular mute has that sound. I'm sure his mute isn't great because his horn sounds great without the mute.
I just checked out the TrumCor mutes and they're pretty affordable so I could go in with my bandmates for a Christmas gift.
A question, what is the difference between brass and copper bottom mute? Also, does any one know what mute Miles used?

[bove]

Most metal trumpet mutes are made out of aluminum, and some have a brass or a copper bottom. The Brass and Copper are heavier than the aluminum, so they vibrate differently. You might characterize the copper bottom mutes as "warmer" compared to an identical all-aluminum model.

One thing to be aware of is that Copper is a soft metal, so copper mutes are more prone to dents if the player is not careful and tosses it around a lot.


I believe that Miles' muted sound was a Harmon (or Wah-Wah) mute with the stem removed. That's what gets that unique small penetrating yet diffuse sound.

There are a number of manufacturers of Harmon mutes. JoRal makes nice ones, the copper one has a very nice sound.


Is your buddy using a straight mute?

[bove]

Originally Posted by GuitarRuss

My trumpet player has a cup mute, that I'm quite fond of for a retro sound, but for that Miles Davis thing, the regular mute has that sound. .....TrumCor mutes....

If you're looking for a "Miles" sound, while nice, I don't think TrumCor will be what you're looking for... they have a softer characteristic, and there is no high frequency "zip" to their sound.

If he's using a straight, I'd try a Harmon.

[GuitarRuss]

He has a Humes & Berg cup mute that sounds great. You can also pull off the cup and use it as a kind of straight mute, but I don't think it's a great straight mute sound, and he rarely uses this feature.

He also has what I believe is a pretty cheap harmon style mute that has a few dings in it which may account for the harsh harmonics. It's not important to sound exactly like Miles, just to get that cool-jazz mute sound, and anyway, his style is more in the Roy Eldridge / Louis Armstrong vein.

The TrumCor "bubble" mute sounds like it's close to a harmon but a bit warmer, so that would probably be perfect. I'm also making another order for a bunch of mics so I'll get a nicer mic too.

[woofhead]

I've used the beyer m69 for trumpet and thought it was great-mine is an older one from the 70's with tuschel connectors in case it makes a dif.I also love ribbons(m160, royer,nady's) for horns(I play sax)Another option would be a used re18-very similiar to an re 20 for less.Possibly also audio technica atm25-I suggested this to a fellow sax player to take on the road and he's been super happy with it and he's really picky about his sound(acoustic jazz player,alto sax)Any dynamic will be pickier with pres so consider a good portable pre at some point.I've got a couple of fmr rnp's that work great with all these mics and is very compact.Good luck,

Mike

[Jungle Jazz]

Have you tried an SM57 (with windscreen)? Or maybe an Audix i5 could work for you. Either one will be less than 100 bucks, and they can be used for lots of other stuff.

[smarsland]

Originally Posted by GuitarRuss

He has a Humes & Berg cup mute that sounds great. You can also pull off the cup and use it as a kind of straight mute, but I don't think it's a great straight mute sound, and he rarely uses this feature.

He also has what I believe is a pretty cheap harmon style mute that has a few dings in it which may account for the harsh harmonics. It's not important to sound exactly like Miles, just to get that cool-jazz mute sound, and anyway, his style is more in the Roy Eldridge / Louis Armstrong vein.

The TrumCor "bubble" mute sounds like it's close to a harmon but a bit warmer, so that would probably be perfect. I'm also making another order for a bunch of mics so I'll get a nicer mic too.

Tell him he needs a JO-RAL harmon mute. I assume he has the stem out of the other one.