Advice on Stocking a Mic Locker for a Jazz Studio

[StudioR]

I'm helping get a studio up and running and need advice on mic purchases. The studio will be used almost entirely for recording jazz ensembles - trios, quartets, and quintets (i.e. piano, drums, vocal, electric guitar, string bass, trombone/sax/trumpet).

The budget is not fixed and I was asked to recommend a list of mics to use assuming they could all be afforded. That being said, I still want the prices to be reasonable (I'm trying to stay away from $3,000 microphones).

I've read lots of posts regarding string bass mic options, but what about jazz drum overhead choices and a mic for the electric guitar (clean/warm jazz tone)?

Is anybody out there having consistently good results with particular instrument/mic combinations?

[deve]

I had good results with earthworks on drum OH for jazz setups and very close acoustic bass micing. They also sound very good on piano. Easy on the pocket too. My other favorites for piano are AKG C414 and neumann km84. DPA have nice omnis but they are very expensive. Ribbons might be good for horns and strings. I set my eyes on a pair of cascade fatheads. For electric guitar I say good old sm57. good luck

[James Meeker]

I'm not sure this will be much help, but a major jazz producer (he has like 4 Grammys) is swinging by the studio all next week to produce a session and the gear he wanted at the session included:

Telefunken Elam-250
4 Royer 121's
2 AKG C12's
4 Sennheiser 441
1 Neumann M149
2 Neumann U87
2 Millennia HV-3D-8 preamps

[ogamik]

I use most DPA 4006, M149 and 414 but I find SE electronics Mic really good cheap mics.
SE3a and Gemini are really cheap for the quality...
Try it. Best cheap mics for acoustic.

[Jungle Jazz]

I'd say try to find out a budget first as that will really determine which mics you can realistically consider. Also, over in the Remote Possibilities forum they discuss jazz a lot more often. Check there for suggestions.

For jazz drum overheads, I've had good luck with Beyer MC930s and Shure KSM141s. I would heartily recommend either. I also tend to like the AT4047 out in front of the kit.

Piano can really vary depending on the piano and player. C414s can work, but I'm not too fond of the current XLS versions. I like Shure KSM44s better, or I also like a pair of AKG C460B with CK-1 caps.

Try ribbons for horns and/or guitar cabinet. Many of the current inexpensive models will do fine, but you could also look into the Beyer M160.

You'll need some dynamics as well, like the SM57 or perhaps Audix i5. I've heard good things about the Heils, but I have no experience with them myself.

You may have this sussed out already, but, on upright bass, I like AT4047 or KSM44, especially if you have some isolation. An SM7 can work there, too.

For a really budget conscious mic, the CAD m179 is a good sounding, flexible, all around utility mic. It could work on any traditional jazz instrument, including voice, with passable results. At current competitive pricing, you can get half a dozen of them for under a grand.

[vernier]

I'm helping get a studio up and running and need advice on mic purchases. The studio will be used almost entirely for recording jazz ensembles - trios, quartets, and quintets (i.e. piano, drums, vocal, electric guitar, string bass, trombone/sax/trumpet).

M49 or two.

[jhg]

The one that makes cats swing really hard.

[The Chemist]

DPA 4011s.

[pegleg]

The mentions (as usual) of cheap, crappy Chinese mics would worry me...

I understand the problems of budget, but realize that jazz is one of the bastions of actual good recording quality (something that generally doesn't go hand-in-hand with SE Electronics mics, or whatever crap they're pushing these days). It's not quite as audiophile as classical, but it's not, on average, all that far behind.

(The point being, if it's intended that anyone actually listen to these recordings, or - perhaps even purchase them, they will expect a certain level of quality. Are these recordings for a label? Demos? It would be inadvisable to outfit a studio with "budget" mics only to lose all their business, or have to sell and replace them within a short time span).

You will see Neumanns (vintage and current, like the U87, M149), Ribbons (RCA, Royer, Coles), DPA/B&Ks, as well as standards like 414s (preferably not the current crappy ones), RE20s, etc, in good jazz studios. Of course, you don't mention what the mics will be plugged in to - the console / pres or recording format.

[1979]

The best tenor sax sound I have ever recorded was with a peluso r14. This was live off the floor using a baffle between the drum kit and the sax. the r14 has insane side rejection. I came out with pure sax tone and almost no bleed from other instruments. Pre was an old 1073. That same session I did the drums with a u87 on kick and M149 as a single OH. Some m160's were involved in the kit as well, but only the two neumanns were necesarry for sound we were after when we mixed it.

I remember experimenting with royers in that session, but they were n't particularly suited to that recording.

Cheers

[stevep]

EW QTC 40 piano, drums, overheads, vibes, some vocals, ect....... :))
DPA 4011

AEA R84 vocals, room,electric guitar,acc gtrs, trombone/sax/trumpet, uprite bass

Pearlmans TM1, TM2 vocals, room, accoustic gtrs, uprite bass, horns

beyer m500 trombone/sax/trumpet

and the usaual suspects
royer121
U87 vocals, up bass, ect...
57 snare, elect gtr
421 toms, horns
PL20 kick, horns
414 up bass, acc gtrs, ect...


these are some of my favorites, for under 3000$

[mikecorwin]

Ribbons!
4038
121
Maybe AEA or RCA (god willing!)

[RMJAZZ]

For what it's worth...even though this thread is really old;considering the budget...

Kick- Neumann BCM 705
Snare Top- Audix i5
Snare Bottom- SM57
Hi Hat- Apex 205 w/ Michael Joly Mod
Overheads- (2) Apex 205 w/Michael Joly mods
Toms- Sennheiser 421

Acoustic Bass- KSM 44

Piano- Shure KSM 44 AND Apex 205 w/Michael Joly mod

Sax/horns- Neumann TLM170, if that is not affordable go with the TLM49

Keeping in mind that for Jazz you will want the most transparent pre amps you can get your hands on. API is the pre of choice for most Branford Marsalis recordings........I would start there. Other great choices are John Hardy M-1, Gorden and Martech.

With all that said, if the musicians are good enough, the best Straigh-Ahead Jazz recordings are done with 4-6 mics total.............

In Jazz,
Rob

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by StudioR

I'm helping get a studio up and running and need advice on mic purchases. The studio will be used almost entirely for recording jazz ensembles - trios, quartets, and quintets (i.e. piano, drums, vocal, electric guitar, string bass, trombone/sax/trumpet).

The budget is not fixed and I was asked to recommend a list of mics to use assuming they could all be afforded. That being said, I still want the prices to be reasonable (I'm trying to stay away from $3,000 microphones).

I've read lots of posts regarding string bass mic options, but what about jazz drum overhead choices and a mic for the electric guitar (clean/warm jazz tone)?

Is anybody out there having consistently good results with particular instrument/mic combinations?

I would get a few good LDC tube mics. Peluso and Lawson make high end models at a good value. Also grab some SDC tube mics. Peluso also makes a killer sdc tube. You'll nee some ribbon mics. I'd go with the AEA r84, but Royer and Coles will do nicely as well.

The Coles or AEA are good for guitar amps as well as brass, bass, woodwinds and even piano.

[basstracker7769]

Probably a bit late on this one but if your doing jazz acoustic etc
Call RAL Audio Services and Rick can recommend some mics and or Mic mods that would suit you fine
Also contact Michael Joly at OktavaMod - Affordable Boutique Microphones
he mods Oktava mics and they sound wonderful on vocals and acoustic instruments.

[StudioR]

Originally Posted by basstracker7769

Probably a bit late on this one but if your doing jazz acoustic etc
Call RAL Audio Services and Rick can recommend some mics and or Mic mods that would suit you fine
Also contact Michael Joly at OktavaMod - Affordable Boutique Microphones
he mods Oktava mics and they sound wonderful on vocals and acoustic instruments.

Thanks for the links. I checked them out and will definitely be doing some more research at the two sites. We actually postponed stocking the mic locker and decided to rent a studio for a week to do the record.

Two weeks ago we took four days and tracked the record at Pachyderm Studios in Cannon Falls, MN. Other notable names that have recorded there include:
The Bad Plus (Prog, plus their most recent unreleased record),
Nirvana (In Utero),
Live (Throwing Copper)

The studio has a great live room, but I'm somewhat of a novice at recording jazz, so we'll see what comes of it. Here are the mics we used.

Vocal: AKG C-12 (original tube mic)
Piano: Blue Blueberry (x2)
Upright Bass: SM7, AKG C-28 (tube, figure-8), DI
Overheads: Oktava MK-012 w/ Red capsules (tried an AKG C-24 stereo tube mic too, but the Oktavas won)
Kick Out: U47 FET
Kick In: AKG D112 (probably won't use this)
Snare Top: Neumann U64
Snare Top: B&K 4004 omni (for brush work)
Snare Bottom: AKG 451B
Hi Hat: Shure SM81
Toms: Sennheiser 421
Electric Guitar: Blue Baby Bottle
Hammond B3: AKG 414 (x2), Audio Technica 4047 (on bottom)
Rhodes: DI (will be reamped later)
Vibes: Oktava MK-012 (original capsules)
Trumpet: Rode NT1000 (tried the Royer R122 but didn't like the sound as much)

[StudioR]

Forgot to mention that I had telephone call with Wynton Marsalis' sound engineer for Jazz at Lincoln Center. The purpose of the call was mainly to discuss upright bass recording techniques for when drums and bass are recorded in the same room.

He's been having good luck using the AEA R84 (ribbon mic) in conjunction with a DPA 4011.

Anybody tried either of those mics?

[fenikner]

I work for Pro Audio Heaven (a recording studio/vintage mic restoration shop) as the house engineer and sometime lackey, so I get to use a lot of the ribbon mics that Steve Sank works on- tons of RCA mics, and some magically modded Shure and Beyer mics.
I'm particularly fond of RCA SK-46s for drum overheads, and the RCA Varacoustic (kind of a precursor to the 77dx) absolutely kills on horns.
However, ihf you're looking for something super solid at a good price, I'd suggest the RCA ribbon modded Beyer M160s and M260s, as well as the Shure 315/300/330s.
You can call Rodger, the sales guy, at 1-888-321-MICS. He's super nice, and will bend over backwards to make sure you're happy with your mics!

[MattJazz]

The Coles or AEA are good for guitar amps as well as brass, bass, woodwinds and even piano.

on a budget - re-20's also do great on guitar amps. (bass on a budget as well)
mp

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by StudioR

Forgot to mention that I had telephone call with Wynton Marsalis' sound engineer for Jazz at Lincoln Center. The purpose of the call was mainly to discuss upright bass recording techniques for when drums and bass are recorded in the same room.

He's been having good luck using the AEA R84 (ribbon mic) in conjunction with a DPA 4011.

Anybody tried either of those mics?

Dave Robinson, J@LC's engineer, has the luxury of mic'ing bass players who possess big sounds. These guys play without amps as a rule. The AEA would be great for that type of player. I have used it a few times myself. If you have a bass player with low action and not much volume, you might consider a Beyer m88. It's a hyper-cardioid dynamic. You can put it right by the bassist's fingers, just above the bridge, and you won't get too much bleed from the other players. These mics aren't expensive either. And as Matt said, the EVre20 is a good all around bass mic. Good for bass drum as well.

[StudioR]

Originally Posted by ajfarber

Dave Robinson, J@LC's engineer, has the luxury of mic'ing bass players who possess big sounds. These guys play without amps as a rule. The AEA would be great for that type of player. I have used it a few times myself. If you have a bass player with low action and not much volume, you might consider a Beyer m88. It's a hyper-cardioid dynamic. You can put it right by the bassist's fingers, just above the bridge, and you won't get too much bleed from the other players. These mics aren't expensive either. And as Matt said, the EVre20 is a good all around bass mic. Good for bass drum as well.

Yes, Dave Robinson is who I spoke with. The low action/not-much-volume scenario is what I was dealing with on the last session. I was astounded by how much the player's technique affects the tone. I wonder also how much of this had to do with the instrument itself. When the player was really "digging", the tone just popped, but at other times, I was getting mud.

Considering the bass and drums are in the same room, I would definitely try the Beyer m88 for its hyper-cardiod characteristic. I would worry that the RE20 would get too much bleed.

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by StudioR

Yes, Dave Robinson is who I spoke with. The low action/not-much-volume scenario is what I was dealing with on the last session. I was astounded by how much the player's technique affects the tone. I wonder also how much of this had to do with the instrument itself. When the player was really "digging", the tone just popped, but at other times, I was getting mud.

Considering the bass and drums are in the same room, I would definitely try the Beyer m88 for its hyper-cardiod characteristic. I would worry that the RE20 would get too much bleed.

Also, build a little "tent" around the bass mic. This can be a bunch of heavy blankets draped over a mic stand. Just get something in between the bass mic and the drums.