A Week of Festival Fun

[pkautzsch]

Last friday, I set up for various recordings of a classical music festival featuring Bach and Brahms. Since Saturday until next Monday, we'll record Brahms' German Requiem, Bach's Mass in B minor, some cantatas, choir+piano, piano solo, string quartet, organ, and a few other things.
Musical director and all the other "important" people are very picky about visible mics. And they are sort of picky about good sound, too. You can imagine that this will result in some nice pics in the Best of Flying Mics thread.
Most of the concerts take place in a church seating about 1,200. I've recorded there a few times before and worked out a flying system that works well for most stuff. Some stuff, however, is performed in a smaller room seating about 150 in a baroque palace. In addition to pickiness about mics and sound, the location is Unesco Cultural Heritage, so one needs to be extra careful about mounting flying rigs and using only their special tape.
My assistant is a Tonmeister student from Berlin.
We're using Neumann and Schoeps SDCs plus the occasional Oktava for not-really-critical sources. We're recording into Nuendo and onto a Fostex 2424LV via 16 channels of Audient ASP008 going into MOTU firewire interfaces via ADAT. As both locations have NOT been designed for recording and are very susceptible to draft (yeah, German November!) and outside noises we have to rely on headphone monitoring only. So far, it's worked out well enough though, and there's certainly more important concerns in this situation (eg. coughing audiences or traffic).

You've guessed it: it's a lot of fun Pics and sound clips to come.
And please feel free to ask questions or give opinions.

[Remoteness]

I'm looking forward to the pics and clips.

In the meantime...

Because of the mic visibility issues how much more time did it take for you to be ready to "roll" than a standard location recording when the visuals are not as critical?
Furthermore, where you normally like to setup your recording rig?

[boojum]

Peter, please tell us in more detail you mic setups and why. This area of GS is a seminar for me and I value it highly. I am sure others want to see as much as possible of your work, too.

Cheers/Tschuss

[pkautzsch]

Here's a few pics of the church. It's been re-built in 1957 around the ruins of its 19th century predecessor which was destroyed in World War II.
Outside view: http://stjohannis.net/mediac/400_0/m...212/Kirche.jpg
Quire: http://stjohannis.net/mediac/400_0/media/DSC00257.JPG
Timpani usually are right in the corner: http://stjohannis.net/mediac/400_0/media/IM001200.JPG

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I'm looking forward to the pics and clips.

In the meantime...

Because of the mic visibility issues how much more time did it take for you to be ready to "roll" than a standard location recording when the visuals are not as critical?
Furthermore, where you normally like to setup your recording rig?

Load-in and setup of flying mics takes about 3 hrs. That's three ropes across the stage. A few mics on stands (timpani, double bass, or piano spots, for example) don't need much time, same goes for the gear, so everything is set up in about four hours
All in all, it's 16 channels for a large oratorio - I'd need about one and a half hours for setup and fine-tuning when working with stands only.
As I know that place quite well, I can prepare a lot and there's nearly no surprises.

In the smaller place, we set up on the gallery right over the ensemble. Flying two KM83s took us about 45 mins, as we had some mic orientation issues. Next time that's gonna be faster too.

I usually set up in an adjacent room, so I have some isolation. In this situation, however, I've learned to love latency, as I hear the recorded signal not at the same time as the bleed through the cans. That actually does enable me to judge the sound.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

...I usually set up in an adjacent room, so I have some isolation. In this situation, however, I've learned to love latency, as I hear the recorded signal not at the same time as the bleed through the cans. That actually does enable me to judge the sound.

Have you considered using a stereo delay for your cans and/or speakers.
We never leave home without one.

It works perfectly everytime.

[fifthcircle]

Great idea... I've never done that for recording gigs, but I do that when I bring speakers for FOH duties... A number of the yamaha PA boards can give you a delay on an output, including your monitor out. Time align your speakers and you can hear really well.

--Ben

[pkautzsch]

Here are a few shots.

The first is an overall view of the flying setup: Seemingly right under Christ's chin you can spot the left KM183 w/ DIY "eyeball" - about 3ft to the right you can see the other one - on the whiteish ropes is a spaced pair of MK21s serving as choir spots (spacing about 6 ft) - left, near the pulpit, a Straus packet MK2S+KM184 - just under the sculpture the MS pair MK8+KM184 - symmetrically there would be another Straus packet which is not shown here.
Second: The MS pair, note the EUR 0.05 DIY cable hanger and straps. Same straps used for Straus packets, see third picture.
The soloist spot in the fourth pic is visible only for the three "important" people sitting right behind it. As most of the soloist sound comes from the spaced 183s, this spot is ok down there, just for a bit of control if that should be necessary. It's an Oktava MK012 w/ hypercardioid cap.

[pkautzsch]

As can be seen in the pics, my basic setup is made up from three levels:
Spaced KM183s w/ eyeballs about 10 ft from stage, about 9 ft high, spaced aobut 3 ft. The eyeballs give some more "reach" and "focus", and they are pointed towards the woodwinds. They "see" the soloists' mouths from about the same angle, so no real need for soloist spots. Main pair for oratorio/orchestral stuff, will be turned backwards for an organ recording.
An MS pair right over the conductor's head, about 8 ft high, pointed towards the center woodwinds as well. This is a "center" mic in oratorio/orchestra recordings and doubles as main pair in solo piano or piano+voice. On the same rope there are two Straus packets serving as outriggers for both main pairs, omni and cardioid being recorded onto different tracks. More cardioid=more strings vs. winds - more omni=more winds and brass. Basically they could be seen as string spots, too.
This setup is more flexible than I'd hoped, but I had experimented with "threesomes" in that position before.
A wider spaced pair of MK21s for the choir, over the 2nd or 3rd row, pointed towards the last row. These are really just spots, no double purpose here.
I add a few spots on stands depending on what's being played. We sometimes record more than one option, mainly for learning and comparison purposes.

[phil.]

Peter,

great little report! Thanks thumbsup

I am wondering how you stop the MS Mics and the Straus packets from spinning around on the mic cable?!
Also, you mentioned that you had some orientation problems with the KM83....how did you solve it? How do you get your flying mics to point in the right direction once you suspend them from the cables? The cable hanger does the trick?

Thanks again, looking forward to some clips!

Best,

Phil.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by phil.

Peter,

great little report! Thanks thumbsup

Thanks for the flowers

I am wondering how you stop the MS Mics and the Straus packets from spinning around on the mic cable?!
Also, you mentioned that you had some orientation problems with the KM83....how did you solve it? How do you get your flying mics to point in the right direction once you suspend them from the cables? The cable hanger does the trick?

The hanger does part of the trick. That cheapo DIY thingy I use for the MS pair can easily be twisted in itself, and indeed needs to be adjusted a bit after temperature changes. Setting up friday morning when the concert is on saturday evening (what luxury!) gave the cable lots of time to find its position.
The other part of the trick is turning the mic around its longitudinal axis in the clip, and therefore twisting its cable, until the two forces ("cable will" and "mic twist") balance the mic in the right position. Therefore we have this 3D "S" shape in the MS cable. With the MS pair, all torsion had to be achieved with the cardioid, of course.
Orientation problems with the 83s came from a different type of suspending at a string quartet date (pics will follow later today). A clip was knotted directly into the rope, the cables too, and the different weight of two Tuchel-XLR adaptors (yeah, vintage 83s) caused some slight imbalance. That basically meant re-knotting the adapter, and living with a slightly angled AB setup. Wasn't too bad as the right mic was angled a little outward and got more treble from the cello than from the violins.
Basically we found out there's a better way to fly, which we'll try out next time.

Off to organ now.

[pkautzsch]

We recorded a string quartet in an extraordinarily beautiful room of a baroque palace seating about 150. It's rooms like this one that string quartets originally have been composed for. It's got a nice balcony that goes around the whole room, so flying is easy. That's what we thought.
We set up only a main pair of KM83s, spaced about 40 cm, about 2.8 m high, and about 1.5 m out from the ensemble. Our rig was on a balcony right over the players. We used my MOTU 896 HD's pres and backed up onto my assistant's Sequoia rig through a Focusrite Saffire Pro's Line ins. Must have been fun to watch for the balcony audience.
Flying the mics was a bit of a hassle, though, as those were the old Tuchel version and we had short adapter cables to XLR. These were not equally long, though, and as we had to fix the connectors to the rope because of the mic cables' weight, the piece of cable between knot and mic was also not equally long. Took us a while to get both mics to point forward deliberately. We didn't mind the right one pointing slightly outward: that way we got a bit more focus on the cello.
In the interval, we added a pair of Oktava 012s w/ cardioid caps, which we just threw off the balcony. That was for learning/comparison purposes only. BIIIG difference, and preference is clearly KM83s.

First pic: KM83s from above.
Second pic: KM83s again, note the converted standard mic clamp.
Third pic: 83s and 012s, and cello+viola chairs. You can get a nice impression of the room's aesthetics here.
A short bit of the Finale of Brahms No.1. Completely unprocessed except for 16bits dithering and mp3ing. No artificial reverb or messing with dynamics.

[phil.]

Thanks for the info Peter!! Very Cool thumbsup

By the way, I really like the recording! Probably very close to what it sounded like in the room, right? Well done!

The perspective feels a little bit like looking down on the players, rather than sitting infront of them from an audience point of view! Maybe a touch too much?? What do you think?

Best,

Phil.

[brle]

Sweet sound, nice venue (where exactly located?) and thanks for sharing!

[pkautzsch]

Phil,

the mics were about 2.8 mtrs high, so they did look "down" somewhat. Might be a touch too high for a studio recording, but as this was right over "important" audience members, I wanted some height so the mics don't get hit.
We had the mics up even a little higher for a lute session and a baritone+piano date of which I will hopefully be able to post samples soon. Both dates included spot mics.

brle,
That room is part of the Würzburg Residenz which was built in the 1700s by famous architect Balthasar Neumann (no wonder it sounds great!). That room usually serves for university lectures (musicology, archaeology and similar "ivory tower" things).
Here's a view of the room from the back rows, and a view out of the window.

[pkautzsch]

Here's a sample of Bach's Mass in B minor.

Main: KM183s
Orchestra: MS MK8/KM184, outrigger packets MK2S/KM184 (about 40% omni/60% cardioid), bassoon spot MK4 about 6ft high and 5ft behind the players, timpani Oktava 219, double bass KM184
Choir: pair of MK21s spaced about 6 ft.
Soloists: Oktava 012 hyper, mixed quite low, eq'd a bit.

Sorry, no pics this time.

[pkautzsch]

Some pix of our rig and control "room". As stated above, this was on-stage, right behind the last stand of 1st vlns.
We didn't need to care about where to sit
We had to dive under the pulpit's handrail to access our rig. Mics and stuff could be stored on the pulpit's floor, so we had easy access to that.
On the first day, there was a small organ and a Steinway D piano in there instead of the chairs. Great fun moving these in and out.

Top to bottom:
My notebook running Nuendo 2.2

MOTU 896 HD
MOTU Traveler

2 Audient ASP008s with nice blue illuminated phantom switches

Fostex D2424LV

An empty 4u rack-bag so we get the stuff a little higher for user-friendliness.

[boojum]

Peter - the venue is gorgeous, eleganten. Thanks so much for all the detailed info on how you set up and record. These are the things I file away for later use. I still do not have the gear for such extensive multi-micing, but hopefully will, someday.

Cheers/Tschuss

[pkautzsch]

Update after some chaotic christmas weeks.

Here's a pair of piano samples, a bit of Bach and a bit of Brahms' Hungarian Dances.
We set up a closeish XY pair of MK4s near the stick (you might, looking closely, find the stand on the pic a few posts above - didn't have time to take pics) and a pair of KM83s spaced about 1 ft, about 8 ft away from the tail end. These became our main pair, with the XY used for a bit of definition in the louder Brahms parts.
In addition we used the flying MS setup (with lots of S!) for some broadness, and the flying 183s as a room pair.
Any questions?

[pkautzsch]

Here's a short Brahms Lied recorded in the smaller venue.
Main pair were flying 83s, piano tail end an AT 3035, singer an Oktava 012 hyper near the keyboard.
I would have placed the main pair a little closer if it hadn't been flying - this way we had the voice spot up a little higher than I'd normally do. The piano spot is kept very low, as we had good-sounding bleed in the voice spot, and just gives a little more spaciousness.

After the string quartet experience we approached flying the mics differently: we mounted the cables to the rear balcony and the rope to the front. This way we had more control and no "microphone swing" like when we had had the rope just across.

[Plush]

Luv the building, luv the recording room. You're junked in there with the stands and chairs. Typical!

[pkautzsch]

We turned around our main KM183s to record organ at the rear of the church. DIY eyeballs did a great job on this one, but I'm glad I also put up some closer mics.
We used a pair of KM83s in front of the center part, an Oktava 012 omni for a side part with smaller pipes, and a pair of MK4s on a K&M 20800 stand with long boom from the first balcony for the "Rückpositiv" - all spots were, again, kept rather low, and more for "clarity of sound" purposes than for "clarity of image".
We tried to feed the signal from the main pair through a pre down there and via AES to our rig on the first balcony (set up there to have less cabling hassle). For some obscure reason the AES signal wasn't quite reliable so we switched to analogue then.
Top to bottom: The organ, MK4, KM83s widely spaced, 012, sound sample.

And once more:
Any comments, hints, or questions are very welcome!

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Plush

Luv the building, luv the recording room. You're junked in there with the stands and chairs. Typical!

Yeah - but it could get worse. Been set up right next to trash cans and hoovers a few years ago...
One day I'll have a nice little truck outside, with all the stuff connected via MADI.