What kind of PTZ camera setup do you use?

[fifthcircle]

I had a colleague who had a cool adapter that adapted a video signal to run over XLR lines. There would be virtually no degredation in the signal. Unfortunately, that colleague passed away this summer and his wife has locked down his gear so I couldn't tell you who made it. We would run video right along side of audio signals without any problems.

Made life in the field a lot easier. We'd just pull whatever the local video feed would be.

--Ben

[Martin Kantola]

Don't know if this helps, but I'm running S/PDIF signals through a 2,4GHz video transmitter successfully. If it works the other way around you should be able to use an XLR line for video (just as with AES/EBU), maybe with a simple balancing/impedance matching/ground loop preventing transformer at one or both ends. Or even without one?

Martin

[Barnabas]

I run video through all kinds of cables, including audio snakes.

See the details at
Making the Wrong Cable Work for You

[jazzbutcher]

Well, my thought was that I could just roll my own connectors for a video signal for one of these cameras, since the conductors in my snake are shielded and of good quality.

However, at this point, I'm interested in what actual camera setup other folks use, as I've got no video camera of any sort at the moment. I see various web-cam-ish type devices advertised from time to time, but I haven't tried any of these out.

Steve Remote, what's that little camera we see in some of your pics?


thanks,

-dave

[Remoteness]

I just got in from preping for tomorrow's gig.

If I get a chance I shall post a reply with a few pictures our setup, cables and such that I took just for this thread.

I have plenty to say about this situation and I will chime in very soon if I cannot tonight.

Remember, I did take some pictures specially for you!

[jazzbutcher]

Steve,

You rock!

You are the hostess with the remoteness-ness!


-dave

[Remoteness]

Dave,

We use Canon VC-C3 PTZ cameras.
These communication cameras were first introduced by Canon in 1997.
Canon has updated the line a few times over.

With that said, I decided to buy into these units because they can be found for next to nothing on eBay and other online sources.

I originally purchased (on eBay) four of them as a kit with a Telemetrics controller for pennies on the dollar.

The Telemetrics controller model we have can operate up to four cameras.
It’s a very sweet system, especially since you can find them for a very affordable price.
Telemetrics makes a new controller that operates the newest camera models available from Sony and Canon.

The cameras and controller each cost around thousand USD when they were new.
You can find the cameras from $30.00 to $100.00 USD depending on the condition and which accessories are included with the camera.
The controller price range is $250 to $500.00 USD. IMO, you're nuts to pay more than that.

Originally the camera came with the CCU, wireless remote, AC adapter, an assortment of cables and a manual.

Since Canon currently doesn’t provide service for this model camera, I’m buying everyone that I find online within my purchasing guideline.

I’m also looking for VC-C4s which I have a Telemetrics controller for that model.
They are a bit more expensive than the VC-C3.

The VC-C4 has been replaced three times over. So, it also has a limited service commitment from Canon.

Since I like to make things as simple as possible, I decided to use ELCO90 connectors for our PTZ/V/P cable system.
This snake handles camera control, power to the camera and NTSC video signal.

We have made a number of snakes that are wired with female ELCO90s on each end.
The cable harnesses that attach to the snake have male ELCO90s on one end and the various connectors to interface to the controller and camera.

The Truck (or CRM) side gets a XLR for power, a 9 pin DSUB for the controller and a BNC for the video monitor.

The camera side gets a mini (???) power plug, a mini 8 pin DIN for the R232 port on the camera and a BNC/RCA connector for the video out. The camera harness is incomplete; it still needs the power plug. As of now, I'm looking into what size connector it needs to be.

In the pictures below you will find Alpha expandable tubing used as a protective cover for the connectors.
I came up with this scheme (by chance) over ten years ago.
It works flawlessly and has kept our connectors safe.

I like to place the camera in an area that maximizes the full potential of the PTZ.
Some folks just set it and forget it.
I like to program presets so I can easily shift the camera exactly where I want it at any given time.
I usually set a wide shot and various close ups.
If applicable, I may also store close ups of FOH or MON world so I have a visual of the person on the PL.
I like to scan the audience when ever possible -- It can be a lot of fun.

We very rarely record the show from these cameras.
If we do recorded the performance it’s the line cut from the video truck.

Currently (as per this post) we have nine or ten VC-C3 cameras and around six Telemetrics controllers.
This count expands as I find more of these puppies online.

My newest search is for the VC-C4 cameras & controller.
Currently I have no VC-C4 cameras and only one controller.

If you see me bidding on eBay for one of these suckes, STAY AWAY or I shall come to your house and invite you out to LUNCH!!!

[Remoteness]

Here's a picture of the Telemetrics controller during a Blue Note Jazz club date awhile back...

It's the device to the left of the Studio Comm controller.


So, Dave...

I hope this helped!

[MichaelPatrick]

Steve, is that a Midas console in there?

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Steve, is that a Midas console in there?

Michael,

The (above) photo you're refering to shows one of the two Midas Venice320s that’s normally in that mobile unit.

The 320s are by and large used as a (combined) mix desk only.
We have never tracked with them, but have done plenty of live broadcasts.

Here's a picture of the two 320s during a live television broadcast for CBS News.


.

[Remoteness]

Dave,

Did I post too much information for your review?

All the best!

[Indrestudios]

Wow Steve, you've got quite a camera system there! I started researching PTZ cameras a few months back, but got sidetracked. Is there a standard camera control protocol out there? as long as the 9 pin information matches your camera specs?

There are also a bunch of IP / wireless PTZ cameras floating around. Might be cool to make this all happen via CAT5 or better yet wireless. For me it's purely reference, not for broadcast.

We currently use an old fixed Sony lipstick camera, but it's definitely on it's last legs. And I'm getting tired of pulling Coax.

[Remoteness]

I'm not sure if there is a standard camera control protocol between the different manufactures or not.
I do know Telemetrics burns EPROM clips for the three camera manufactures their controller supports.

Canon and Sony are different regarding the Telemetrics controller.
I have purchased Sony controllers and had Telemetrics burn me a Canon chip for it for a nominal fee.

I believe Jim van Bergen used an IP / camera via CAT5 cable when he was in the mobile audio truck business, but we should ask him directly to make sure.

The CAT5 setup sounds like a good plan, but unless you're spending plenty of bread (IMO) on "affordable" wireless camera system they don't cut the mustard in many cases.

We have played around with the inexpensive stuff and I was not happy with the quality of the system.
There are really nice wireless setups that come with a hefty price tag.
If I had the extra scratch or I got a project to pay for it, I'd be all over that situation.

Stredicam operators use them all the time, but I never researched wireless control of a PTZ camera.

[jazzbutcher]

Steve,

Hey man, thanks for all this great info -- I go out of town for a day or two and come back to all these photos and info. Thank you so much!

I am impressed with this setup - it is very cool indeed. I can tell you've spent some time thinking about it and your wiring harnesses and cable protectors are very stylin' to boot. Very nice work indeed.

I will have to say that I was shocked when I started poking around online looking for a PTZ system... they did not seem cheap at all. Or well, you could get a wireless web-cam-ish thing -- but I don't think I'd trust wi-fi at some nightclub or theatre...but maybe that's just me. The other PTZ systems I saw looked like something for security systems and cost over a grand just for the camera...clearly not affordable to mere mortals....

This Canon camera seems quite affordable and there are some for sale used here and there. Quite a lot of features for not so much cash. That Telemetrics controller looks sweet as well, but perhaps a bit more expensive (well, at least I haven't found one for less than list price thus far, but I haven't had time to look around much). I guess that box is awesome for you if you've got several of these cameras in a venue all at once. Very slick, very slick indeed!

Thanks so much for explaining how you use these guys and hook them all up. That is a very sweet setup. As usual, you've found a great balance between industrial strength and affordable!!!

Thanks so much for all the photos and details on this -- muchly appreciated!


-dave

PS: This page was also useful for digging up some details on the various technologies out there for this stuff: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs/rtp/cameras.html

[Remoteness]

Thanks Dave,

That link you provided us is a nice find.

Remember, those Canon PTZ cameras and Telemetrics controllers cost at least a grand or more each when they were new.

Finding them in good to great condition for pennies on the dollar is what makes this system rawk for folks like us...

Meaning, (IMO) we're audio people that want a little more video, but don't necessarily want to pay the extra scratch to make it happen.

[Remoteness]

If you see me bidding on eBay for one of these suckes, STAY AWAY or I shall come to your house and invite you out to LUNCH!!!

Ah ha, so you're the one that out bid me for that VC-C3 on eBay!!!

I told you I would come to your house and ask you out to lunch if you bid on one of those puppies!!!

Now what should I do since you won the bid; ask you out to DINNER?

Man, that's cold.





Nahhhh, good for you and all the best.
You got a complete package and that is hard to find.
Now, stop bidding on my cameras!

Enjoy!

[jazzbutcher]

Steve,

Like I said - I am shocked at what a "new" camera or controller will cost that does what these systems do. You have made quite a find with this line of cameras - they have quite amazing capabilities for not much moolah.

You said it right -- being audio people, we're not wild about paying mondo bucks for some video capabilities -- but we still want some decent video. I wonder if the video people think the same about audio stuff....they always talk like "Oh, audio is easy...yadda yadda yadda"....

Man, I am sorry about the eBay thing -- I did not know you were bidding on that camera!!!! When I placed a bid with a bidding program (not via the eBay website), you were not on the bidder list. I certainly didn't mean to beat you to the punch on this thing. I'm afraid to know what "DINNER" entails - It sounds like I could end up in the East River or something... But I will be glad to buy you a real dinner next time I see you!!!!! So sorry!

-dave

[Remoteness]

LOL

No worries my man...

But, I will take you up on that dinner offer!

Enjoy the new toy and don't forget to tell us all about it.