Kelly Clarkson at halftime in Detriot

[RockDog]

Originally Posted by drakewire

Please.. I think that you should go to Youtube and listen to about ten or twenty live clips, there are about 80 percent of them that she misses the mark many places in the song... Blame it on the weather, hogwash... Blame it on the truth, the fact is she is doing songs that are not in her range.
The fact is she does have talent, she does sell records due to mass marketing (there are hundreds if not thousands of singers who have a lot more talent than Kelly) but since the Idol Maniac's determine the market we get to enjoy the tunes that someone else wrote, someone else dictated how to sing it, and then put a face and say "God ain't that Kelly brilliant" Give me a break... If you lived in Los Angeles, Nashville, New York or London or for that matter anywhere that is inundated with musicians, and singers you would say so what is so special about Kelly? Not a whole lot... But this ultimately comes down to preference... I want to hear more of her first album than the second album, where she is trying to be someone she is not....

lol 10 or 20 live clips ha ha well out of 200 plus gigs a year that aint bad

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

With a post like that, I can state unequivocally that you are not, nor have you ever been a performing vocalist. As a vocalist myself, and one who toured and performed for many years both in the studio and on stage, I can tell you that even with the best of vocalists, how they hear themselves in the monitors (or headphones) makes ALL the difference in how their instrument reacts.

I won't get into the physiological aspects of it, but the fact is it doesn't matter whether her band was playing live or she was singing to a prerecorded track, if she couldn't hear herself properly it would absolutely cause her to strain. The human voice is far more temperamental than any other instrument, and for anyone to pretend otherwise is just plain foolish.

As a fellow vocalist watching her performance, I felt like I had been in her place a thousand times before. Not singing in front of millions, but struggling with adverse conditions and bad monitoring, and adapting on the fly to try and get through it with less than optimal results.

If you want to crucify her for struggling in that particular situation, be my guest. But it just tells me that you don't know the first thing about what it's like to be a vocalist.

Unequivocaly?
Pretty big assumption there ZBoy!
Want to research my credentials?
Want to find out how much I have sang on a stage?
Want to find out how many people, much less name acts I have mixed monitors for?
Want to find out how many people, much less name acts I have mixed F.O.H for?
Want to know what quite a few vocalists would say about my knowledge live? On tour?
I was singing in front of crowds n 1972. I've done it. Most importantly, I have worked with some of the biggest names in the industry and learned a few things.

Want to talk about the physiology pf the human voice as an instrument?
My wife is a graduate of UNT Vocal Department Class of '87.
I was with her the whole time while she completed her degree.
I learned a few things from her studies and her.
Do you think I said all of that and I don't know anything about vocals?

If you have been in Ms, Clarkson's place thousands of times before than I really feel sorry for you.

The very fact that she was singing in front of milions is why she should have made ABSOLUTLY SURE that conditions were right. Other performers have been called intollerable bitches because they made sure everything was right. Their ass was on the line. They cared enough.

Ms. Clarkson's poor performance wasn't because of bad stage monitors.
All she had to do is sing to a track. That is the easiest monitor requirement of all!
Her poor performance wasn't because of the weather.
Her problems started well before she hit that stage yesterday.

He big problem?
She chooses to be a "wailing rock singer."
She clearly doesn't know how to do that without abusing her voice.
What you saw was the real Kelly Clarkson.
If anyone was smart they'd learn from what they saw instead of making excuses for her.

I could go through a huge list of artists who could have AND HAVE performed and pulled off a good performance in those "adverse conditions." I Used to know Mike Maitland who plays drums with the Goo Goo Dolls and I am sure that he didn't suck at the halftime show he played at!

That gig was not an "adverse situation"!
It was the oportunity of a lifetime career-wise!
You either can control the situation or you can't.

Singing to a recording of a silly ass rock song is not a crap shoot.
It has been pulled off hundreds of times before by others.
If you know your craft.

Like I said, in todays world, if you knew you couldn't pull it off THEN LIP SYNC like everyone else!
Maybe she isn't aware of her abilities enough to know if she could sing the "hard" parts.
Maybe she doesn't know the upper limit of her head voice.

Learn from what you saw.

Also ZBoy, when you record a vocalist that is having problems like Ms. Clarkson was having yesterday do you simply turn up the monitors and they suddenly get better?
Can monitors make a blown out/abused voice any better?
The "damage" did not occur on that stage. The problems with her performance did not occur because of how her voice reacted with the monitor mix.
She knew where she stood well befre she walked up the stair.
Well... if she has ANY brains she did.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by drakewire

she does sell records due to mass marketing

If that's all it came down to, then pray tell why did Paris Hilton sell only a fraction as many records? Why did all of the other American Idol winners besides Carrie Underwood sell only a fraction as many records?

Mass marketing is only one part of the equation. The songs, and the appeal of the artist are the other parts.

we get to enjoy the tunes that someone else wrote, someone else dictated how to sing it

You mean like they did with most of the old Motown stuff, Phil Spector productions, etc.?

[Chris G]

i wasnt watching... i could just hear it in the other room. I thought it was just her singing solo with no band!! i could barely hear any of the band at all... horrible.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Want to find out how much I have sang on a stage?
Want to find out how many people, much less name acts I have mixed monitors for?
Want to find out how many people, much less name acts I have mixed F.O.H for?
Want to know what quite a few vocalists would say about my knowledge live? On tour?
I was singing in front of crowds n 1972. I've done it. Most importantly, I have worked with some of the biggest names in the industry and learned a few things.

Want to talk about the physiology pf the human voice as an instrument?
My wife is a graduate of UNT Vocal Department Class of '87.
I was with her the whole time while she completed her degree.
I learned a few things from her studies and her.
Do you think I said all of that and I don't know anything about vocals?

If all that's true, then you of all people should know how vitally important the way a vocalist hears themself is to how it affects their vocal performance. That you would discount that outright is puzzling to say the least.

If you have been in Ms, Clarkson's place thousands of times before than I really feel sorry for you.

If you mean playing a gig where the monitor situation was abysmal or other factors beyond my control contributed to difficulty hearing myself properly, then yes. And yes, it does suck mightily.

The very fact that she was singing in front of milions is why she should have made ABSOLUTLY SURE that conditions were right. Other performers have been called intollerable bitches because they made sure everything was right. Their ass was on the line. They cared enough.

I don't disagree. But she's a relatively inexperienced artist with management that clearly doesn't understand the importance of such things. But that's a whole different kettle of fish from the stones being thrown by some around here that she doesn't have talent as a vocalist.

Ms. Clarkson's poor performance wasn't because of bad stage monitors.
All she had to do is sing to a track. That is the easiest monitor requirement of all!

Really? And you know this for a fact? I've seen plenty of award shows, TV appearances, and other major performances by top artists where I watched them rip their IEM out of their ear during a song, because it either didn't sound right or something went wrong.

Her poor performance wasn't because of the weather.
Her problems started well before she hit that stage yesterday.

He big problem?
She chooses to be a "wailing rock singer."
She clearly doesn't know how to do that without abusing her voice.
What you saw was the real Kelly Clarkson.
If anyone was smart they'd learn from what they saw instead of making excuses for her.

Perhaps, but if you watch the performance again, you can see that she clearly was having trouble with the conditions. Whether it was the monitors, whether it was the rain/snow, whether it was the phase of the moon, who knows.

I do know this. As I stated before, I personally witnessed her singing live at the MTV VMA rehearsals, and she was spot on, even singing those "rock" songs. Now, whether she's burned out her voice from singing on her cords, or whatever, I don't know.

[RockDog]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Unequivocaly?
Pretty big assumption there ZBoy!
Want to research my credentials?
Want to find out how much I have sang on a stage?
Want to find out how many people, much less name acts I have mixed monitors for?
Want to find out how many people, much less name acts I have mixed F.O.H for?
Want to know what quite a few vocalists would say about my knowledge live? On tour?
I was singing in front of crowds n 1972. I've done it. Most importantly, I have worked with some of the biggest names in the industry and learned a few things.

Want to talk about the physiology pf the human voice as an instrument?
My wife is a graduate of UNT Vocal Department Class of '87.
I was with her the whole time while she completed her degree.
I learned a few things from her studies and her.
Do you think I said all of that and I don't know anything about vocals?

If you have been in Ms, Clarkson's place thousands of times before than I really feel sorry for you.

The very fact that she was singing in front of milions is why she should have made ABSOLUTLY SURE that conditions were right. Other performers have been called intollerable bitches because they made sure everything was right. Their ass was on the line. They cared enough.

Ms. Clarkson's poor performance wasn't because of bad stage monitors.
All she had to do is sing to a track. That is the easiest monitor requirement of all!
Her poor performance wasn't because of the weather.
Her problems started well before she hit that stage yesterday.

He big problem?
She chooses to be a "wailing rock singer."
She clearly doesn't know how to do that without abusing her voice.
What you saw was the real Kelly Clarkson.
If anyone was smart they'd learn from what they saw instead of making excuses for her.

I could go through a huge list of artists who could have AND HAVE performed and pulled off a good performance in those "adverse conditions." I Used to know Mike Maitland who plays drums with the Goo Goo Dolls and I am sure that he didn't suck at the halftime show he played at!

That gig was not an "adverse situation"!
It was the oportunity of a lifetime career-wise!
You either can control the situation or you can't.

Singing to a recording of a silly ass rock song is not a crap shoot.
It has been pulled off hundreds of times before by others.
If you know your craft.

Like I said, in todays world, if you knew you couldn't pull it off THEN LIP SYNC like everyone else!
Maybe she isn't aware of her abilities enough to know if she could sing the "hard" parts.
Maybe she doesn't know the upper limit of her head voice.

Learn from what you saw.

Also ZBoy, when you record a vocalist that is having problems like Ms. Clarkson was having yesterday do you simply turn up the monitors and they suddenly get better?
Can monitors make a blown out/abused voice any better?
The "damage" did not occur on that stage. The problems with her performance did not occur because of how her voice reacted with the monitor mix.
She knew where she stood well befre she walked up the stair.
Well... if she has ANY brains she did.

wow danny brown some good points but some really silly ones too an ill tell you why, All idol winners that go onto a successful career after maybe the first year are pushed to the extreme that means 5 to 7 gigs a week all year they have to to make the marketing money back also to keep singing to packed houses while the iron is hot, so to speak, and we are all human no one is perfect, so doing as much as she does without lip sync is really hard dude, the vocal wears thin after awhile nothing can be done about that until you rest for a month, the best of the best singers have problems from time to time but when your in serious demand as kelly is to the pop world its hard to stop an rest THE SHOW MUST GO ON as they say, you should know that being around as long as you have an having all the credentials you say you have an all the experiance with the biggest names in the industry

[indie]

I love it when people spew their "credentials" on this forum.


The right credentials to have for a 'pissing on Kelly's performance' thread, would have to be... "HI, I'm Aretha Franklin...I think...blah, blah, blah"

NOT, "I've done sound before...she sucks"

Another perfectly acceptable credential would be-- "Hi, I've sung in the same type of situation many times, and made my living for many years AS A VOCALIST, my take is this..."

She's an awesome singer, with an awesome voice. End of story.

[vernier]

No two ways about it, Kelly Clarkson is great.

[Clayphish]

I agree indie.. theres a bunch of armchair quarterbacks in this thread (yes pun intended).

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by RockDog

wow danny brown some good points but some really silly ones too an ill tell you why, All idol winners that go onto a successful career after maybe the first year are pushed to the extreme that means 5 to 7 gigs a week all year they have to to make the marketing money back also to keep singing to packed houses while the iron is hot, so to speak, and we are all human no one is perfect, so doing as much as she does without lip sync is really hard dude, the vocal wears thin after awhile nothing can be done about that until you rest for a month, the best of the best singers have problems from time to time but when your in serious demand as kelly is to the pop world its hard to stop an rest THE SHOW MUST GO ON as they say, you should know that being around as long as you have an having all the credentials you say you have an all the experiance with the biggest names in the industry

So we are now saying that she is too "in demand" to take time off and make sure that she was didn't sing like that on national TV?

I thought that I read lot's of GearSlutz guys saying that she bucked the Idol System and does it all "her way?"

It also sounds like you doubt that I know what I am talking about.
Whater my friend... what ever....

I don't give a rats ass about her career personally.
I just hate to see people mis-interpret why vocal performances are bad.

I hate to see people make excuses for artists and not call laziness and being un-prepared what it is.

I don't think you'd have the same sentiemnts and forgiving feelings if it was guitar player artist who forgot to tune or broke a string and didn't have a replacement.

I just hate to see the human voice as an instrument given a pass because so many people hear lame attempts at singing so often.
It's hard, you just don't understand Danny!

You know what?
It takes work.
It takes effort.
If you aren't serious about a performance then you'll sound like crap.

IF YOU KNOW YOUR CRAFT THEN THOSE MOMENTS DON'T HAPPEN.
There will be no surprises.
Wow, indeed.

If you want to doubt my experiences then go right ahead.
You don't know me. I'm just a guy wanting to sound lke I know what I am talking about.
You are a guy wanting to prove me wrong.
Why is that?

You know what?
I have seen HUGE stars stumble,
I have seen HUGE stars make drunken fools of themselves.
I have seen HUGE stars dp brilliant work.
I have seen HUGE stars pull off breathtaking performances.
I have seen nine billion nobodies do the same stuff.

You see... what I don't like seeing is people who are given a HUGE opertunity that don't take advantage of what they are given.

Again, no monityor mix in thew world could fix what Ms. Clarkson's problem was the other day.
If you know ANYTHING about vocals then you certianly know that.

Hom many people used to sing WITHOUT MONITORS?
What was their excuse?

It wasn't monitor problems kids!

Her voice wasn't in shape for the gig.
That is HER responsibilty!
Too tough of a schedule and all.

BTW...what gigs did she do recently (say two weeks prior to yesterday?)
Let's check her schedule online.
If someone didn't allow for her to be arrested before a gig of that importance than hse is a fool for having bad mangement.

OK, I'm done with this.
Cute little Kelly was great.
Her monitor mixer should be fired.
He f*cked her voice up.
That bastard!

[RockDog]

lol yup its so funny all these pro's sayin how much they've done, only stupid people would say kelly clarkson is crap, she is great i mean really great her live performance useally rocks

the next girl to be picked on will be PINK by these guys an she's another great singer performer

[RockDog]

You know what?
I have seen HUGE stars stumble,
I have seen HUGE stars make drunken fools of themselves.
I have seen HUGE stars dp brilliant work.
I have seen HUGE stars pull off breathtaking performances.

well you've seen alot, what do actually do for a living? an what kind of music do you play?

[zboy2854]

Armchair criticism/stone throwing seems to be the favorite pastime for many around here these days. But then again, I guess that's why they say there are those who do, and those who sit around and criticize those who do...

[Sounds Great]

l.o.l. You guys very funny.

Yup, she had the guts to do it live. That proves she's great.

And of course, any of us that haven't sold millions of records and performed in front of millions are not allowed an opinion, what do we know.

Kelly is not a horrible singer, definitely better than Ashlee Simpson. Of course that says very little..

Just seems to me the bar should be a little higher. It is sad when even people in the business are so quick to defend such mediocrity.

[Fman]

Originally Posted by Clayphish

I agree indie.. theres a bunch of armchair quarterbacks in this thread (yes pun intended).

Name dropping is not something I'm terribly fond of either. It's fun to be an armchair quarterback for the armchair quarterbacks though.

Here's one for 'em:
Two eyes, two ears, one mouth. ...Coincidence?

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Just seems to me the bar should be a little higher. It is sad when even people in the business are so quick to defend such mediocrity.

The difference (and what you seem to be failing to understand) is that we're not defending a bad performance, which it clearly was. We're defending the fact that she is a talented singer who happened to have a bad performance. Guess what? It happens. I've seen it happen to the best of them. Doesn't mean the baby should get thrown out with the bathwater.

As far as halftime or sporting event musical extravaganzas go anyway, I've seen far more mediocre or bad performances than I've seen good ones, and that includes some legendary artists. Doesn't mean the artists were crap, just that it's a tough gig given the conditions that accompany such performances. And understanding the kind of conditions that are involved, I'm always willing to give an artist a mulligan on that kind of gig.

[Lownotes]

Originally Posted by sahiaman

Little confused. Was Clarkson in Dallas or Detroit? Last I heard, Dallas wasn't cold or snowy, and Detroit Lions play in a dome. I think Goo Goo Dolls played in Detroit.

It was in Dallas, and it was cold and snowy. Granted they probably got 1/132 of an inch, but it was snow. Also, my sister-in-law called from Richardson (suburb of Dallas) to us.

[Pericles]

For all you people who critizise Kelly for her poor performance...well, yes, she was not good at halftime. Hell, it was a downright poor performance. End of story.

And for all of you who are ripping those who are ciritcal of Kelly's performance by pulling out credentials and the old "you never did this before" routine, I have a question for you:

How many of you have ever critizised a quarterback for a bad game, a pitcher for walking too many batters, a hitter for striking out again with the bases loaded, or a shooter missing a critical free throw? If you're one of them, and you're ripping the "Kelly bashers" here, then you're a hypocrite--because I'm willing to bet that no one on these boards ever started in an NFL, MLB, or NBA game.

It's all about point of reference. I'm a lawyer, but I know enough to know that on Sunday, she was pitiful. Just like you know when your favorite baseball player just stunk up the park by going 0-5 and leaving 9 runners on base, I think most people on these boards can make similar judgments about singers, be it right or wrong.

[drakewire]

Kelly has had many bad performances.. In this game, its an all or nothing, be on top always, and not have bad nights type of industry. Why? Money. Bottom line for those who want to stave off the fact that when people start to debate the fact of whether or not an artist has talent, the same goes for the record. Should or shouldn't I buy it. Its dangerous, because its unpredictable. I have known people who have worked with her in studio, and they always say she needs some tweaking. But this is entirely ok, lots of vocalist do. I have never performed in front of millions of people, and doubt I ever will. But I still have ears and can tell when another singer is having a bad week. Clearly Miss Clarkson isnt having a bad week, she is having a bad career. Ten years from now it will be like oh yeah her not damn what a legend.
She needs to do more epic songs, not crap like since you've been gone. Its still a crap song with no real substance no matter how you spin it. I wouldnt compare it to "At Last" or "Unchained Melody" or anyother epic. Yet, some people on the board seem to have a hard on for her. Great! But you are defending a recording artist, not a musician, lets get this straight. She writes nothing and if it werent for people like Sue Ann Carwell and the like, girls like this wouldn't know what to sing... Do you honestly think Kelly Clarkson can Read music... HAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Apparently, you are still working for mom and pop's red headed stepchildren's revival rock band in a basement in Idaho if you believe that...

NO ONE SAID SHE DIDNT HAVE TALENT!! WE SAID SHE'S BEGINNING TO SUCK! Big difference... I want her to have her hay day again... but I dont think this will happen...

[indie]

Originally Posted by Pericles

For all you people who critizise Kelly for her poor performance...well, yes, she was not good at halftime. Hell, it was a downright poor performance. End of story.

And for all of you who are ripping those who are ciritcal of Kelly's performance by pulling out credentials and the old "you never did this before" routine, I have a question for you:

How many of you have ever critizised a quarterback for a bad game, a pitcher for walking too many batters, a hitter for striking out again with the bases loaded, or a shooter missing a critical free throw? If you're one of them, and you're ripping the "Kelly bashers" here, then you're a hypocrite--because I'm willing to bet that no one on these boards ever started in an NFL, MLB, or NBA game.

It's all about point of reference. I'm a lawyer, but I know enough to know that on Sunday, she was pitiful. Just like you know when your favorite baseball player just stunk up the park by going 0-5 and leaving 9 runners on base, I think most people on these boards can make similar judgments about singers, be it right or wrong.

That's a pretty poor case counselor.

The difference being -- we're on a music forum, and some of those criticizing are PRESENTING themselves as experts in this field (particularly expert in the field of singing live in a stadium).

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by indie

The difference being -- we're on a music forum, and some of those criticizing are PRESENTING themselves as experts in this field (particularly expert in the field of singing live in a stadium).

No I don't think so. But we are all experts in hearing them. And the lame excuses that follow. .

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by drakewire

She writes nothing and if it werent for people like Sue Ann Carwell and the like, girls like this wouldn't know what to sing...

Uhh, maybe you should check the credits on the songs. She was a co-writer of several songs on the last album, including 3 of the hits, and all the songs on her latest album. Maybe you should do your homework before pretending to know what you're talking about...

Do you honestly think Kelly Clarkson can Read music... HAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Apparently, you are still working for mom and pop's red headed stepchildren's revival rock band in a basement in Idaho if you believe that...

Yeah, and the Beatles couldn't read a note of music either, and no one seems to have held it against them. So what's yer point?