Opera Recording Techniques

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Robobo1

Thomas, where do you buy the 1/2" sorbothane?

From here Shock and vibration solutions | Sorbothane directly from the manufacture.

[Remoteness]

Go to the Sorbothane website.

I believe the online brochure has a list of vendors.

Originally Posted by Robobo1

Thomas, where do you buy the 1/2" sorbothane?

[sonare]

There are quite a few choices of Sorbothane. Which would work best under the legs of a tripod?

Rich

[Audiop]

Rich,

I would expect something softer than sorbothane being prefered under a tripod. Something like foam of the kind you use in a matress and on resistive absorbers for wall/ceiling mount.

The idea is to have the feets as soft as possible so to whole assembly can move relatively freely with a resonance frequency below the audioband.

Another option for round based stands is a partly inflated bicycle innertube, which also would work (I believe) with a tripod and a piece/sheet/slab of wood or stone between the tube and tripod feets.

I will try all of the above when time permits.


/Peter

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by sonare

There are quite a few choices of Sorbothane. Which would work best under the legs of a tripod?

Rich

Call or write the company. They have some very knowledgeable people working there and can assist you with your purchase.

[Robobo1]

Didn't mean to hijack the thread!

A colleague requested samples from Tempurpedic and uses those. Says they work great.

[sonare]

Something small such as an inflatable wheelbarrow tube under a square of something rigid might work nicely, but the foam presents space problems-- most of my work is not local. These two options look promising, though. Have a link for Tempurpedic foam? My Google search reveals only complete mattresses.

Rich

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by locosoundman

Well-aimed shotguns can also be helpful in dealing with opera singers.

I mean shotgun microphones...

I was starting to agree with you there for a second...

[12ax7]

These work:

PCC Series

I have also put 451s with the "knuckles" on 'em just a milliquidgen above (ie: almost touching) the lip of the stage, aimed down (as if I were shining a flashlight off a mirror toward the source).

The key to getting good vocal capture from people wandering around a stage is to get rid of the pathlength differences!

In the old days, I used to use EV RE-15s in a Mic Mouse (a little foam holder that lay on the stage).

Here's more from Electrovoice on the subject (.pdf file):

http://www.electro-voice.com/downloa...t.php?doc=2333

[7rojo7]

Bazookas for bazoukists
I've done some Operetta in which the theaters have a smaller pit and orchestra than most are talking about here
12ax7, could you explain what you mean by path lengths and then how you deal with them?
I usually go with an xy over an omni coincident array in front of the podium and omni flankers on stands outside the rail. spots on the harpsichord and maybe cello and 3 half omnis on shock mounts taped to the floor LCR, 3 are enough for small stages, I could see the need for more for wider deeper stages, even upstage and downstage. An xy somewhere in the hall. Ping with a clak and I'm good to go. The xy+omni lets me control the pattern and the xy is pointed for the ensemble position rather than at 90deg, changes everytime, but gives me most of what I need. It would be nice to have a triple capsule mic for this.
I go with Brauner Phantoms for the mains, Schoeps CCM5lg for flankers and cello spot, Beyer M260 for harpsichord and CCM21 for the stage, I may have to sell all these soon.
I have bigger problems with directors that make the principals sing downstage or facing sideways or even with their backs to tha audience, I believe they just don't understand. I was involved in one production where the principal developped a strange throat disorder after a fight with the director who wanted her to sing behind a scenography that was a large panel with a 'window' (tulle) in it, smart girl.
If an opera is directed well, there aren't many problems, lighting noise and score turning are always biggies.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by 7rojo7

12ax7, could you explain what you mean by path lengths and then how you deal with them?

The following attachments are from EV's explanation at: http://www.electro-voice.com/downloa...t.php?doc=2333

Attachment 1- Here is a situation where pathlength is a problem:

Attachment 2 - Here's what it does to the frequency response of the singer (due to phase):

Attachment 3 - Here is a mic placement which corrects the problem:

Please read more at: http://www.electro-voice.com/downloa...t.php?doc=2333

[rumleymusic]

Wow, she is really tall.

[Audiop]

She's a Swede...


/Peter

[7rojo7]

thanks, explains it perfectly

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by rumleymusic

Wow, she is really tall.

When the Art Dept. received the Comb Filter Chart, Engineering had already figured the numbers for a height of 6 feet. So they drew her to that scale.

Actually, they took even more creative license than that, as she is an Opera Singer, and hence sings from her diaphragm!

(Good thing they weren't planning to do "Stonehenge" that night!)

[JVanderVliet]

Good Day Folks,

I have experience in alot of different live recording situations, but this one has my nervous. Not only have I have never recorded opera, this is going to be done in a large indoor "farmers" market situation. I am sure there isnt a normal lav type mic that could handle what these singers, I have read through this forum pretty thoroughly, and I cant see anything that references a public/noisy setup situation. There is going to be no music backing. Just the vocals. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Jake

[rumleymusic]

I have experience in alot of different live recording situations, but this one has my nervous. Not only have I have never recorded opera, this is going to be done in a large indoor "farmers" market situation. I am sure there isnt a normal lav type mic that could handle what these singers, I have read through this forum pretty thoroughly, and I cant see anything that references a public/noisy setup situation. There is going to be no music backing. Just the vocals. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

You will probably have to treat it like a stage show rather than an opera. Lav's should work, but you will want ones designed specifically for high quality music use. The best are DPA 4060 or 4061's, you can find a lot of audio examples of those around here.

[GuySonic]

Originally Posted by JVanderVliet

Good Day Folks,

I have experience in alot of different live recording situations, but this one has my nervous. Not only have I have never recorded opera, this is going to be done in a large indoor "farmers" market situation. I am sure there isnt a normal lav type mic that could handle what these singers, I have read through this forum pretty thoroughly, and I cant see anything that references a public/noisy setup situation. There is going to be no music backing. Just the vocals. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Jake

My experience is with either headworn or baffled HRTF baffled omni array that seems to work well in most difficult situations. When practical, position baffled microphone array at 10-12 foot height to get some distance from crowd sounds, and position this baffled mic on stand within 15 foot distance from vocalist near center of stage or 1/3 distance from stage right/left sides if possible.

If stand/boom baffle mounting is not practical for the situation, this same omni array can be headworn with recordist running a portable flash deck recording exactly-as-heard stereo-surround from first row audience positions.

Not a binaural recording, but true speaker compatible stereo-surround of highest audio quality.

Many examples of opera, choral, and classical done with HRTF baffled array mic at: Sonic Studios MP3 Page 2 with Ambient Stereo-Surround Session and Live Performance Recordings

Sorbothane is, as mentioned, only available from the manufacturer, in black/grey colors, and in various durometer ratings (softness) from 45 (very soft) to over 90 (firm). Thickness from very thin to over inch thick are usually stocked in 1 foot and 3 foot squares. Price is by the pound and may be now at ~$10 per #, but I haven't checked for a long time.

[Gaston69]

Originally Posted by locosoundman

Well-aimed shotguns can also be helpful in dealing with opera singers.

I mean shotgun microphones...

hahaha......LOL

[aracu]

One of the problems in recording opera is that the loudest notes of the
singers are more likely to produce odd artifacts in a microphone pickup
than most other sounds.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by aracu

One of the problems in recording opera is that the loudest notes of the
singers are more likely to produce odd artifacts in a microphone pickup
than most other sounds.

Yep.

...And unlike vocals in modern pop/rock/rap etc., vocals in opera do NOT take kindly to the kind of stuff that is common practice to combat those problems.

You really have to make sure you get it right from the outset, or you're sunk.

[7rojo7]

The shattered glass notes.
Those will awake your sleeping early reflections and upper room nodes like nothing else, maybe a trumpet
Amazing grace
Does funny things to my ears (I hear beating like 2 freqs very close to each other) and makes me feel off balance too (sopranos, I thought it might be love) to a lesser effect flutes do the same thing when they're close to me

[doktorwolff]

Originally Posted by 12ax7

These work:

PCC Series

Yepp, I can agree, Crown's PCCs are giving better results than shotguns sometimes.
but MKH416 not bad also.
(IMO: longer shotgun uglier sound...)

my usual setup:

3 PCC and 2 KM on the stage front
3 KM hanging over the stage inside
orchestra: 2 "main" omnis + 4 KM for strings+TLM for bass
additional spots for wind and others if needed (timpani, harp)
if possible: hanged main stereo, but it's usually problematic

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by doktorwolff

Yepp, I can agree, Crown's PCCs are giving better results than shotguns sometimes.
but MKH416 not bad also.
(IMO: longer shotgun uglier sound...)

my usual setup:

3 PCC and 2 KM on the stage front
3 KM hanging over the stage inside
orchestra: 2 "main" omnis + 4 KM for strings+TLM for bass
additional spots for wind and others if needed (timpani, harp)
if possible: hanged main stereo, but it's usually problematic

Here's another trick for catching stuff from upstage:

In many houses, there are drapes hung for masking the wings from the view of the crowd. (The theatre-techies call these "legs".)

These curtains encroach right onto the stage, and I have found that if you sew a good lavalier mic (like the AKG 567) right into the hem of the 'leg' so the mic is poking out the onstage-end of the hem, right at floor-level (ALMOST touching the floor) like a PZM, you can grab some natural-sounding upstage vocals that you just won't get any other way.

.