micing for 5.1 mix.. live concert, acoustic.. small square room.

[cajonezzz]

Quick question about recording setup, with 5.1 mix in mind down the road.




fwiw: square room, about 50x50, stage in corner, mains spanning the stage corner ( small powered mackie type, this is an acousttic show, mains only there to cover a small audience, and the mix will favor the recording feed.) small audience.

so it's corner artist, firing towards other corner, kinda odd, but that's what works for filming purposes.

I'd like to put mics up, to do a test 5.1 mix later on. should i spend money on renting one of those 5.1 fancy mics like the Holo**** soumething or other, or just place some mics?

if so, should I place as wide in the "rear left and right" as possible?

[tenor39]

The Holophone is an excellent choice if your budget will allow it. If not, it really depends on what you can put up in the room.

[Roland]

You could hire the holophone, but I would suggest the Soundfield is a much better bet. I had the Holophone test disc sent to me and where as most of the recordings ranges from ok to good there were a couple that had distortion. I've heard some 5.1 using the soundfield (even done some myself) and they are excellent, easy to rig, and very good sound, (cost less too).

Regards



Roland

[RickZ]

I've been using a set of Neumann mics on a custom made mic holder for the past couple of years, and it has worked well.

I've attached a pic showing location just behind and above conductor, and an mp3 of the last piece of the concert.

Mics are TLM103 pair, aimed 45 deg right/left(Main), TLM184 pair aimed 90 deg right/left(Surr), TLM184 straight ahead(Cent), TLM183 straight ahead(LFE). Mic pre's Lunatec V2 for Main, V3's for Surr and Cent/LFE, to analog in of RME Multiface. Vegas records six channels.

For mixdown to stereo, I find that a slight treble boost on Main, treble cut on Surr works well to prevent consonants that are reflected from blurring them, as this choir puts a lot of effort into clarity of the words.

I've not bothered with creating DVD of this concert, as very few choir members even have home theatre. But listening on my own system in surround is very enjoyable.

Hope this helps . .

Best regards,
Rick Zentmeyer

[Jim vanBergen]

It's a huge choice you have to make, deciding to go with closely spaced elements focused at the area (like the holophone or multi-mic arrays use) or to widely space the mics and them time-align later in post...or lower them in volume so the Haas effect does not override the mains.

I have tried both ways and ultimately my reaction is, "it depends". It's much easier for me to use a DPA array, AEA array, or similar bar that locks the position of the surround mics to keep them more in time, or a dedicated mmic like the Holophone...but sometimes I like a really widely spaced center or rear position from within a location.

I'd like to try doing a 5.1 or 7.1 recording test from the orchestra's perspective, so the percussion and double bass are in the rear left and right, the brass in the middle back (spread), winds in the center middle, and strings widely spread across LCR. One of these days...

JvB

[Roland]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

It's a huge choice you have to make, deciding to go with closely spaced elements focused at the area (like the holophone or multi-mic arrays use) or to widely space the mics and them time-align later in post...or lower them in volume so the Haas effect does not override the mains.

I have tried both ways and ultimately my reaction is, "it depends". It's much easier for me to use a DPA array, AEA array, or similar bar that locks the position of the surround mics to keep them more in time, or a dedicated mmic like the Holophone...but sometimes I like a really widely spaced center or rear position from within a location.

I'd like to try doing a 5.1 or 7.1 recording test from the orchestra's perspective, so the percussion and double bass are in the rear left and right, the brass in the middle back (spread), winds in the center middle, and strings widely spread across LCR. One of these days...

JvB

The only problem is sitting in the middle of the orchestra has a horrible balance! Interesting experiment though.

Regards


Roland

[Roland]

Originally Posted by RickZ

I've been using a set of Neumann mics on a custom made mic holder for the past couple of years, and it has worked well.

I've attached a pic showing location just behind and above conductor, and an mp3 of the last piece of the concert.

Mics are TLM103 pair, aimed 45 deg right/left(Main), TLM184 pair aimed 90 deg right/left(Surr), TLM184 straight ahead(Cent), TLM183 straight ahead(LFE). Mic pre's Lunatec V2 for Main, V3's for Surr and Cent/LFE, to analog in of RME Multiface. Vegas records six channels.

For mixdown to stereo, I find that a slight treble boost on Main, treble cut on Surr works well to prevent consonants that are reflected from blurring them, as this choir puts a lot of effort into clarity of the words.

I've not bothered with creating DVD of this concert, as very few choir members even have home theatre. But listening on my own system in surround is very enjoyable.

Hope this helps . .

Best regards,
Rick Zentmeyer

Setting up surround channel mics can be a real problem, I suspect the reason you are having to apply eq to the SL and SR channels is to counteract "creep". I also don't understand why you are setting these at 90 deg when the most accepted surround set-up is ITU. I also personally disagree with a microphone recording to the LFE channel. LFE is Low Frequency Effects, this is what the film boys use to shake us in our seats when explosions go off nothing to do with music.

Regards



Roland

[RickZ]

I primarily record pipe organs, both classic and theatre style, in addition to choral, many times also with organ accompaniment. Many of them include a 32' stop, which speak in the range of 16-32 Hz. Using the omni KM183, which is flat down to about 10 Hz or so, gives a room shaking playback of the room shaking sound in the church or theatre. Creating DVD's with this 'real' signal into the LFE makes a pretty cool sound, imho.

I've added a clip from a student recital on one of the better chuch organs in the area, unfortunately in stereo .mp3. If you've got a good sub, you'll feel the bass notes. I've been using a Sunfire True Subwoofer, and this clip gives it a workout.

I'd created a surround .wma file, but could not get it uploaded, as wma is not a valid file upload type, not sure why. They sound very good, imho.

Rgds,
Rick Z