Codename Baby9K-- A great idea for mobile & location recording

[jindrich]

-No, this is NOT an SSL product. This project is the culmination of more than a decade of research by a pool of audio engineers, here made to fit into SSL's existing product line (unmodified XRACK chassis)

-Yes, SSL is well aware of this project

-SSL is working on *something*...mmm, just as a few other 1st class manufacturers out there...


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EDIT: more specs descriptions

What you are seeing here,

Top Image:
The base 24 channel (16+8) expandable, fully featured, automatable Superanalogue Mixer. Each channel sports 1stereo Cue and 2-5 FX sends, switchable balanced Inserts, selectable pre/post Direct Outs with independent send level, dual stereo main busses routing, mute+solo switches and "Virtual On-Line" topology. The mixer does include full talkback and listenback, 2-way A+B foldback, and sophisticated monitoring sections with dual speaker outs, AFL-PFL everywhere, LED and big VU meters for the dual busses, tally, 2 ext inputs, inserts for Master Busses, dual assignable headphone outs.. etc, etc, and of course, Total Recall. The 4st inputs (additional 8) have each also access to either cue or Fx busses, dual mix bus routings and solo+cut.
All this in a 6U standard 19" rack.

Center Image:
Same as above, plus full 8 Bus Routing for every channel and comprehensive dedicated Metering per channel and busses, bus send level with AFL, along with 16+1 standard 100mm audio faders. 8U 19" rack.

Bottom Image:
Same as above, but this time the fader unit has 16+1 true Moving Faders to the analog mixer. The faders and rotary knobs are also used to simultaneously control and automate DAWs. 8U 19" rack.



Simple. Elegant. Multifunctional. Powerful. High class. And very affordable.

[bforest4]

looks good to me, wake up SSL!

[84K]

add an expandable meter rack and counr me in!

[TonyBelmont]

Where are these from?

[alexstringer]

That's exactly why SSL didn't my $ yet... They will once THIS is released!

[radu.ionescu]

Somethin à la ToneLux system from SSL? Yeah, that would be great!!

[TheSweetener]

Nice pictures but there's Tonelux! Why do you need SSL to do this?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by jindrich

[IMG] And very affordable.

Yeah right.

We are talking about SSL here.

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by TheSweetener

Nice pictures but there's Tonelux! Why do you need SSL to do this?

It's like " The Mustard is ala Ketchup"...

[jindrich]

some more info on the subject


-this is a project of a pool of european audio and software engineers based in germany, to whom im a member

-those images were made 1 year ago

-the project summarizes more than a decade of marketing and development research. some of the intial concepts and drawings are more than 10 years old

-the project was codenamed "Baby9K", as the main goal was to obtain an SSL9000K in an extremely flexible, modular and user configurable fashion

-the mixer is designed to NOT be restricted to recording studios. it pretends to cover everything, from live applications, location recording, theaters and fixed installations, broadcast, transfer rooms, professional recording facilities and personal/producer driven studios

-the entire project is summarized in a 50+ pages PDF document, which includes all concepts, drawings, diagrams, signal flows, connectors, images, etc

-the project is NOT restricted to SSL. SSL was taken as the reference, as it's one of the few manufacturers who can offer snap recall of all parameters (total recall)


more to come...

[TonyBelmont]

So, in reality this is just ideas... the things in the images don't exist... and this has nothing to do with Solid State Logic, other than using them as a "reference"...

This thread is at the very least confusing, and at the worst misleading since this is not an SSL product... especially when you are using words like Total Recall and SuperAnalogue, which are SSL trademarks.

You said this is not an SSL product... but, the title of the thread is "What SSL forgot to introduce at AES NYC".

[Stiff]

Yeah, a little confusing. But from the looks of it, it could be something good (and expensive), Keep us posted!

[The Byre]

Whilst I wish you and your colleagues every success, may I give you some advice from someone (me) who has done something very similar a long time ago - and in Germany too.

Start small.

Don't build the big system, but build something like a rack of mic-pres with phantom that can double as splitters. When they start to sell, find a wholesale outlet, because despite all good intentions, engineers are not salesmen and the stuff does not sell itself.

Now you have a product and distribution.

Then build a filter bank and perhaps one or two other things such as a summing box.

Remember that marketing and distribution is AT LEAST as expensive as manufacture for quality items in audio! Stands at the AES and the Musikmesse? Magazine ads? Salesman's commission? Shop markup?

Also please remember that SSL has a marketing department with people who know how to conduct surveys and calculate the cross-price elasticity of demand of the various models for themselves and the competition. They have experts in cost analysis and every other aspect of business and can tell you more about the structure of, say, DigiDesign than most people at DigiDesign. This is normal for a medium sized company like SSL. If they 'failed' to build something, then there will be a reason.

[jindrich]

The thread is misleading? The post starts with these very same words: "-No, this is NOT an SSL product..."


The industry has changed enourmosly. Demand for big pricey consoles has pretty much vanished, but not demand for hi-quality tools. All big console manufacturers have realised this, and are therefore releasing smaller, cheaper and more flexible (configurable) products catering to the current audio market needs.


After thoughtful marketing and product R&D spanned along more than a decade, this german based group has designed a new unparalleled product that has real customer demand. The project (and adaptation to its current product line) has been presented to SSL.

There's nothing like this on the market. This thing brings big-console like quality in an extremely configurable and relatively affordable package, to a very broad range of customers.

Besides other applications on the field or in fixed installations, the "B9K" was conceived to be the centerpiece of any DAW based recording studio, regardless of its size. With its modular and expandable architecture it is designed to work along existing outboard items or stand alone, and grow in time as demand dictate.

Anything can be built, from a smaller RESETABLE tracking and mixing device for a composer's studio to a truly automatable, fully analog mixer for an ICON facility.


As for SSL, the "B9K" as it was presented fully integrates and compliments its existing product line, and it only requires 2 XRACK modules and a master unit to happen. Prices would be in line of similar XRACK units.

[obscure object]

Originally Posted by jindrich

The thread is misleading? The post starts with these very same words: "-No, this is NOT an SSL product..."

------------>

As for SSL, the "B9K" as it was presented fully integrates and compliments its existing product line, and it only requires 2 XRACK modules and a master unit to happen. Prices would be in line of similar XRACK units.

Ok, so what exactly are you doing/selling??
Do you have a product line similar to the SSL X-rack line? .... other than that, the idea would just be ... ummm ... buying products from the SSL X-rack line!!
I don't get it.

[jindrich]

Originally Posted by obscure object

Ok, so what exactly are you doing/selling??
Do you have a product line similar to the SSL X-rack line? .... other than that, the idea would just be ... ummm ... buying products from the SSL X-rack line!!
I don't get it.

we'd simply like to see this brought to the market, preferably by SSL. as for our research there's a huge demand for such a thing. it is perfectly doable btw (for instance integrated into SSL XRACK product line), and at very attractive price points.

it's presented here to GS people to gather opinions.

[The Byre]

What market research have you done so far?

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by jindrich

we'd simply like to see this brought to the market, preferably by SSL. as for our research there's a huge demand for such a thing. it is perfectly doable btw (for instance integrated into SSL XRACK product line), and at very attractive price points.

it's presented here to GS people to gather opinions.

"and at a very attractive price point". Of course. Try designing and building something sometime. I see where their price points are and they are right about where they can be. It ain't gunna get any cheaper.

[jindrich]

Originally Posted by ToneLux

"and at a very attractive price point". Of course. Try designing and building something sometime. I see where their price points are and they are right about where they can be. It ain't gunna get any cheaper.

it DOESNT have to be cheaper. it is ok the way it is.
we're talking about building a 9K-style modular and RESETABLE mixer to cover all grounds of audio production.

my comments about "attractive price points" are related to a comparison to the older desks. there's still demand for high-end units, just not in the half a million $ mark anymore.


prices in the XRACK category for the units in the pics above are ok. the moving fader option will be of course more expensive, but not as much as one might think, because it would be based on DCA (just like current SSL desks) where audio doesnt go thru the fader. this allows:

-cheaper and less manteinance of the unit
-number of faders doesnt have to equal number of automated channels
-faders can simultaneously be used for other tasks, like DAW automation

[NowWhat]

Originally Posted by ToneLux

It's like " The Mustard is ala Ketchup"...

SSL = Ketchup...

[DontLetMeDrown]

I really wouldn't want to sit in front of that all day. If your going to spend that much cash, why not go the extra mile and get a sexy console? I always wonder on these threads where people say "I'd buy that right now" how many of them would really plunk down the cash?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by NowWhat

SSL = Ketchup...

Ketchup made of gold coin and fire rubies.

[B-San]

I hope SSL will work toward making this a reality...

It could be a bit more sexy though... since it'll probly cost as much as a nicely-styled coupe

[Jim@SSL]

Just to have a say on this....

Jdinrich did email me this direct.

No, it is not an SSL product.

However, I am more than happy to receive considered suggestions and feedback from users. Don't flame a guy just for posting an idea. I thin khe simply wanted to get some feedback...

[Samc]

I'm a little confused, what exactly did you guys create?

[JohnRoberts]

Good luck... It's a little harder than it all looks...

JR

[jho]

Originally Posted by NowWhat

SSL = Ketchup...

I love ketchup !!

[jindrich]

ok, let me reword this.

would you be interested in an automatable, modular system like this one, and how much would you pay for it?

What's on the image below is essentially a 16ch (16mono+4stereo) version of the AWS900+, minus Preamps, EQs and the st comp, but with everything else, including Total Recall (TM). (those faders dont move, but could optionally)




(PS: for the sake of comparison, let me say SSL could build and offer this at around half the price of a comparable Tonelux mixer, Total Recall included)

.

[WidgetNinja]

Originally Posted by jindrich

would you be interested in an automatable, modular system like this one, and how much would you pay for it?

I would only pay maybe 10K, with automation... which I guess means I'm not in the market for something like this yet. My budget is only personal finances.

Originally Posted by jindrich

(PS: for the sake of comparison, let me say SSL could build and offer this at around half the price of a comparable Tonelux mixer, Total Recall included)

.

Personally, the biggest thing about the Tonelux range is that it looks Console. The visual alignment of modules and faders in those images would drive me crazy. I know consoles haven't always been so pretty, but I'm a very visual person and not having faders line up with modules, and the ghost area to the right of modules like in the API rack would just drive me batshit. I also hate all the non-black 500 series modules, and Daking's Tonelux color departure. Just because I want some color doesn't mean I want a mini console crayon box. Purple is the only exception, because it is their trademark (but now they have black Pants?!)

I think that is true for a lot of people with these mini "real deal" consoles. If it doesn't have the same ergonomics, and looks kind of poo, like a hodge-podge of gadgets to pretend to be a console, why spend mini "real deal" money? You have to justify it. If I bought this and said "I have an SSL", a client would look at it and think "this is the SSL m-box." As a business investment I would want something with more console aesthetics. As a personal investment, I could ditch all the EQ's and just have the routing, meters, faders, and automation (but in a console alignment!).

[bforest4]

Jindrich, thanks for posting this, I dig threads like this where people post their ideas, especially with photoshop pics.

For me, the X-Rack is already close to what I would need. The main improvement I see from these pics is actual faders(instead of small knobs) for the summing levels, just like the Neve 8816 fader pack. I would like total recall on the faders, but don't need moving faders. I would do any automation moves with a DAW controller but set general analog levels on the SSL fader box. I am fine with doing bussing and sends from the DAW.

WidgetNinja makes a good point, having everything lineup with no spaces in between would be great, so maybe SSL could build a custom desk in several sizes with X-Rack slots that all linup with faders and a global power supply. It would be even cooler if you could have optional slot sizes for API 500 series, Neve, Chandler, etc., but have it all ergonomically linup.