SECURITY! how do you handle it on a live gig?

[TheGetDown]

hey remote slutz,

What are your thoughts on security at gigs? Do you ever worry about doing a gig solo? Does anyone carry protection to gigs? Tips?

[Remoteness]

Hey back you you!

Are you a Remotester?

My professional thoughts on security at gigs is relative to the type of gig you're doing and the location you're setup at.

If and when applicable, security is usually provided by the client or promoter of the event.

As a basic rule, all over night dates must have security from the time we leave until the time we arrive back to the location.

Almost every TV or film production shoot we work on provides full security.

We been to some of the best worst neighborhoods in the country.
So, we always consider our options when addressing these type of locations.

I have so many stories (3 decades of stuff) to tell, but cannot repeat them here.
Most of the security teams I've hired in the past are off-duty law enforcement folks and they carry heat.

Most major security firms offer armed and unarmed security officers at a price.

[springer]

I love it when my wife goes along with me as she is good at watching my stuff. But when she isn't there, I prioritize and always think about someone wanting to walk away with stuff...
- Try not to be diverted by chatters wanting to know "why I mic'd something that way..."
- Always scan and don't keep attention in one place too long. Most work like wrapping cords, breaking down stands, etc I can do without my eyes.
- If I can I take everything up on stage when wrapping up, that way if anyone wants to take anything they have to get up onstage and are easily recognizable.
- Mics first - ALWAYS !!!

Wives are AWESOME - oh I am scoring points...

[TheGetDown]

Well see Im looking to get into location recording, however at the level that Im aiming for, there probably won't be substaintial security provided by the venue.

Im mostly worried about set-ups (ie. "Id like you to come out to shady-ville and record my band" and then a stick 'em up situation) than people walking off with stuff.

Anyways, keep your thoughts coming!!!

[Jim vanBergen]

In the late 80's and early 90's, I packed - I was living in an area that was dangerous. But clients get freaky when they see the thing on your belt, or sticking out under your jacket or pants. And then you start doing BIG gigs, where there is a lot of security, and you can't pack because the FBI, SLED, ATF, & Secret Service won't even let you carry a work knife.

When my truck was working, I kept the numbers of two security guards who were licensed in my phone, and could always score armed or unarmed in NYC for cash. Every club, venue, and client understands security, liability, insurance. As do we. I still carry insurance for my fly pack gear, and you'd be a fool not to. But for bands, SOMEONE is doing security, and there's a LOT of expensive stuff. Make it someone else's problem as well as your own, and hire great A2's (or interns if you're that broke) and keep a close eye. Also, for most location gigs, the band is gonna have most everything mike.

Use a minimum of your own gear, label them with something obvious, and keep the make/model covered up with tape. I never had someone try to steal my KM84s and KM85s, only the CAD E200s and E100s because they LOOKED expensive. But they were a pair to remove from the stand, and security got to them before they got stolen.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

... only the CAD E200s and E100s because they LOOKED expensive...

The grilles are solid gold, though... aren't they?

[Juan T.]

As other have said have the production ensure that they have adequate security on the job at all times. Write that into your contract. Even when security is present always keep an eye out for trouble and do your best to secure everything within reason. I did a broadcast job in Central Park NYC. My personal bag (laptop, digicam misc tools) was stolen from the monitor console position in a "secure" area. Production had security including one or two off duty police. The following day the RF tech's bag with similar items and much more was stolen from he RF tent. He had his very buried deep to avoid an easy grab. Production said they would reimburse the cost of the missing items. Then they fought which items were actually tools of the trade needed for the job. Then they wanted the police report which I complied. Then they failed to follow through on their promise. Due to certain circumstances it was difficult to press on. Lesson learned.

As far as personal safety and protection beyond the typical police and security provided or not provided. I am licensed to carry a concealed weapon in Florida and there are many states that have reciprocity with Florida and honor the permit in their states. As JvB noted this is all with the exception of areas where even a permit does not allow carrying.

[videoteque]

I love americans, what would your gun do to avoid someone steal your bag??

My grandpa always said to me: "Piensa mal y acertarás". (Think the worst to be right). I always try to leave equipement in a tidy and controlled place. I ask someone to watch it when I go to the WC or to the car. I rarely leave important things like tapes (I make videos) in bags, I put them in my pocket. Just some basic precautions.

With big setups is more difficult, and it takes three seconds for someone to put a microphone in their bag...

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by videoteque

I love americans, what would your gun do to avoid someone steal your bag??

FYI, I was carrying at that point because many people in the city were being mugged at gunpoint or knifepoint- for backpacks, wallets, even groceries. Thanks for assuming the worst.

[videoteque]

I wasn't assuming anything!

Fear for your life must be horrible, I can't blame anybody for it. We all have some fears, but I have been lucky and I have never been in a live or dead situation. Maybe if I had I would be the first one to defend weapons...

But so many times I hear/read US citizens who talk about their gun as if it was something magical or a cure for criminality, when in fact are tools used to comit crimes. Guns kills people and it would be better if they don't exist!!!

The best gun, is a shotgun microphone!!!

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by videoteque

The best gun,

Is NO gun, my friend.

No gun is best.

[Juan T.]

Originally Posted by videoteque

Fear for your life must be horrible, I can't blame anybody for it. We all have some fears, but I have been lucky and I have never been in a live or dead situation. Maybe if I had I would be the first one to defend weapons...

But so many times I hear/read US citizens who talk about their gun as if it was something magical or a cure for criminality, when in fact are tools used to comit crimes. Guns kills people and it would be better if they don't exist!!!

Yes, as stated I was talking personal defense and not for securing my personal property. You certainly were assuming or you would have not said what you said. I don't want to take this off topic but I feel I must respond. I am glad you have never felt the need to defend yourself but unfortunately we live in a world where that need may arise. I don't believe that many think it is a the magical answer against all crime and danger but rather a fighting chance. I have looked down the barrel of a gun aimed in anger in my direction and it is no fun not being able to do anything about it as I had nothing on me. I was fortunate enough to live to tell about that. I know of several people who had incidents where they were fortunate enough to have been carrying as they owe their lives to that today. I certainly hope you never see the need for it. Not sure where you live but it must be nice.

[Remoteness]

I empathize with some of these comments on a variety of levels.

I was on the wrong side of a double barrel shotgun hold up at the Pilgrim Theater in Alphabet City way back in the day circa 1982.
I lived to tell the story because words are much more powerful than guns and thugs.

Yeah, Alphabet City when junkies and criminals ruled the streets.
Need I say, “It wasn’t a trendy place to hang as it is today”?

Furthermore, there are plenty of other stories that I really cannot get into, but I can say this:
“I bet they wished they never met my crew and me”.

[thedoner]

Hey GTD,

I have a portable remote rig consisting of 3 heavy road cases, a splitter box, a UPS, 2 mic cases and a large case for cables, tools etc. Even though technically I'm a one man operation, I wouldn't dream of doing a remote gig alone. There's always too much to concentrate on to keep eyes on you gear the entire time, although some gigs are easier than others depending on where you're set up in relation to the general public. I always hire someone to assist me when I take the gear out. It's always someone I trust and I always make it clear to them that protecting the gear is priority one...before, during, and after the performance. Granted, I could make a few more dollars without it, but it's well worth it in my book. Hell, on some gigs I wish I could afford to hire 2 people.

I also recommend getting insurance for your rig. To the best of my knowledge, portable rigs are not covered by homeowers/renters insurance once the gear leaves the house. I have a policy through State Farm which costs me about 400 bucks a year. Not cheap, but as they say "what price, peace of mind?"
Hope this helps

-Gordon

[videoteque]

Not sure where you live but it must be nice.

I am from Spain, but I live near Rome, in Italy. Of course shit happens here too. We never know where or when it will happen...

This is indeed a sad thread.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by videoteque

...Guns kills people and it would be better if they don't exist!!!...

Let me make something perfectly clear...

Guns don't kill people, people kill people!
And, it would be very nice if they did not exist!

IMO, a gun is just another tool -- It becomes a weapon when you use it in that way.

[videoteque]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people!
And, it would be very nice if they did not exist!

[shaddai]

Guns kills people and it would be better if they don't exist!!!...

It would be great if they didn't exist, but the fact is that they do, and they aren't an evil thing on their own. Guns kill people the same way a fork made Rosie O'Donnel fat. The problem is not the gun, the problem is the person holding it. Remoteness is right on with his remarks in my book.

And to me, it's obvious that people outside the United States don't quite understand how guns play a role in American society. For that matter, there's a relatively loud section of people within the United States government that don't understand it very well either. I went and dug up the numbers to help you guys understand how it works: We have 1.4 million people in our armed military forces, 10 million armed police officers, and 290 million people in our remaining population. 50%-60% of the general population own 215 million MORE guns. That means if you meet only 2 Americans in your entire life, chances are 1 of them owns more than 1 gun, and isn't in jail for using it incorrectly.

Now, do you ever wonder why no foreign nation has had the desire to invade US soil before? It's probably not the military they need to watch out for....

As far as guns just being tools for crime, I hoist the b.s. flag. The prison population for ALL (gun involved or not) violent crime in the US compared to the number of guns contained in our population means at the most .005% of guns in the US gets used in a violent crime. That means at least 99.995% of guns are NOT used in a violent crime. In fact, violent crime is more closely linked with population density and poverty levels than gun density.

Anyway, we're talking about how to keep your gear safe from theft and damage. If you're not comfortable with the idea of a gun being close for whatever reason, good. I don't want to see a gun in the hand of someone who's nervous! There are definitely other ways to give someone at least an attitude adjustment anyway. Did you know that an SM58 in your left hand and a 4' slice of mic cable in your right make one wickedly effective...

er....

mmm....

talkback mic?





todd

[Ruphus]

As once professionally educated in martial arts I know that tools are made to weapons, and that a knife can be used exclusively for civilzed tasks just as a pen or just extremities can be for killing.

Yet, don´t blur facts by misusing that isolated circumstance.
There is a lot of crime happening only because of posession of guns. Far too much crime would had never happened had there not been the omnipotent feeling of coarse minded gun carriers.

In fact it is naive and irresponsible mentatilities and constitutions far from due contemporary understanding that leave weapon manufacturers without control and even legalize gun posession.

Each and every penny that has been generated by weapon manufactury should be confiscated and allocated to victims, be it of victims of criminals or what you call military action. The manufacturies being modified to civil use.

All portable tools made for killing should be banned through wholy and strict international action.
F*** away with stupid & archaic base and give room finally to civilisation and responsibility in the 21 century!

Ruphus

[Samc]

Originally Posted by Juan T.

I don't believe that many think it is a the magical answer against all crime and danger but rather a fighting chance. I have looked down the barrel of a gun aimed in anger in my direction and it is no fun not being able to do anything about it as I had nothing on me.

If you had your gun what would have done? Maybe not having a gun at the time is the reason you, (and possibly other people around at the time) didn't die!

Are you guys really willing to get into a gunfight, and/or kill someone over a piece of gear?!?!

As someone who has lived in NY city most of my life, and doing this job for thirty years, and who regularly travel to the far corners of the world to do my job, (the only place I've never worked is Antarctica), and never felt the need to carry a gun, this is new for me.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by shaddai

The problem is not the gun, the problem is the person holding it.

Sorry to disagree.
A gun's primary purpose is to kill or injure. And it's a tool way more powerful than a man's hands or a knife.
The victim can be a deer you've been hunting, or a guy wanting to steal your gear, or a guy wanting his gear not to be stolen.
The problem is that the person holding the gun is a human being and therefore occasionally will make mistakes. He might think the moving thing behind the bush is a deer when in fact it's a fellow hunter. He might think the guy approaching his gear wants to steal it when in fact he wants to ask how that Urei actually sounds. He might think that it's ok to kill people to get their property.
A gun which is owned only for security reasons, the owner hoping he'll never need to use it, can still be stolen and used to kill the owner. If he didn't have a gun, it could not be stolen, and not used to kill him.

So why shouldn't one minimize the risk of mistakes and have as little a number of guns around as is absolutely necessary?

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

...So why shouldn't one minimize the risk of mistakes and have as little a number of guns around as is absolutely necessary?

I hear you loud and clear, but even if all the good folks around the world melted their firearms, we would still have a world where only the bad folks would be armed.

I don't think it's the responsibility of the recording engineer to carry a gun to protect their equipment and crew.
I feel it's up to law enforcement, the producer of the show and the security company they hired to secure the production environment.

IMO, my home is another story and until the laws change in the States, I have the right to protect my family and property.

With that said, I've been on the wrong side of a gun barrel and I got out of the situation by using my mind and saying the right words. That may not work everytime, but I still believe I have the right to live even when someone else thinks otherwise.

Protecting yourself goes much further than the weapon you use.
If someone is trying to murder you or your loved ones (IMHO) you must use any means to make that not so.
Anyway you look at it its a bad situation to be in.

And, I hope we ever have to be subjected to this kind of terrible possibility.

[TheGetDown]

lmao! What happened to this thread!?

"I love americans, what would your gun do to avoid someone steal your bag?? "


once again, TO BE CLEAR!

Im not worried about having my gear swiped, im worried about getting MUGGED/ROBBED!!!!!!


anyways....

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by videoteque

Guns kills people and it would be better if they don't exist!!!

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Guns don't kill people, people kill people!
And, it would be very nice if they did not exist!

So, what can we do to get rid of all these people?



....more guns??

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

So, what can we going to do to get rid of all these people?



....more guns??

We should kill them with the guns we don't want...

Just kidding of course!

I'm afraid that there is nothing we can do about it and that's a shame, but its part of human life as we know it.

[sguali]

This whole thread remind's me of Lord Of War (the movie)

"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11? "