Go-To Preamp for Acoustic Sources?

[sillypants]

I have about $2,000 to spend on 2 channels of preamp. I'm recording only acoustic instruments (guitar, xylophone, accordian, vocals, thumb pianos etc.), and I'm looking for a big, warm, clear sound.

If you could only have *one* 2-channel preamp (or two 1-channel preamps I suppose) that met these conditions, which would it be?

Thanks!
: )

[gep]

Here we go again...

Forssell technologies SMP-2

No matter what style of music, good luck finding something better.

[NOCCA]

I'm a fan of the Avalon 2022 for cleaner stuff.

But MY pre that I'd use on just about anything is the Hamptone Jfet unit.

But, there really aren't any "go-to" pieces of gear for me, I love to experiment with everything. That's what makes this fun!

>>AG

[Midiguy]

Pacifica here, but of course that's my only high-end pre

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Midiguy

Pacifica here, but of course that's my only high-end pre

Not really ideal for acoustic sources, unless you want them to sound with slightly hyped HF, scooped mids and 2D .. This was my impression when trying it ...

Originally Posted by gep

Here we go again...

Forssell technologies SMP-2

No matter what style of music, good luck finding something better.

Yes, it would be indeed very difficult to find something better sounding (especially for acoustic sources). I have used and tested Millennia, Flamingo, Fetcode, DAV, DW Fearn, Crookwood, Great River, DACS, Pacifica etc. and none of them came even close to the incredibly full, detailed, natural and 3D sound of Forssell SMP-2. I gave away all of them and kept only SMP-2 + Telefunken V76 for big vocals ... I have no desire for any other preamp ...
Try it and you can thank us later :-))

Just for a quick idea (few tones on monochord):

Forssell SMP-2

Pacifica

Millennia HV-3

[toolskid]

The Buzz Audio MA 2.2 is really hard to beat!

[pete murray]

Originally Posted by toolskid

The Buzz Audio MA 2.2 is really hard to beat!

that's the one that Ivo hasn't tried yet!
i would like to hear the Forssell technologies SMP-2 but i do know the buzz
is great on acoustic sources.

[lblstudio]

ADL600 for me.

[lj Potyk]

How about the GML 8302?

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Not really ideal for acoustic sources, unless you want them to sound with slightly hyped HF, scooped mids and 2D .. This was my impression when trying it ...




Yes, it would be indeed very difficult to find something better sounding (especially for acoustic sources). I have used and tested Millennia, Flamingo, Fetcode, DAV, DW Fearn, Crookwood, Great River, DACS, Pacifica etc. and none of them came even close to the incredibly full, detailed, natural and 3D sound of Forssell SMP-2. I gave away all of them and kept only SMP-2 + Telefunken V76 for big vocals ... I have no desire for any other preamp ...
Try it and you can thank us later :-))

Just for a quick idea (few tones on monochord):

Forssell SMP-2

Pacifica

Millennia HV-3

wow what a difference. That thing sounds incredible so full and smooth.
The other 2 sound so hollow in the mids in comparison. The Pacifica is
honky and hollow. I'm surprised. I always thought the pacifica had fuller mids

Got any full mixes tracked with that beast? Also what was the mic?

listen to the bottom end around 14 secs. Now that is subharmonic

[Amstel]

Hey Allen, you like a heineken when being online?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by allencollins

wow what a difference. That thing sounds incredible so full and smooth.
The other 2 sound so hollow in the mids in comparison. The Pacifica is
honky and hollow. I'm surprised. I always thought he pacifica had fuller mids

Got any full mixes tracked with that beast? Also what was the mic?

listen to the bottom end around 14 secs. Now that is subharmonic

The mics are Schoeps MK2. So far I used it on my new monochord CD. Should you be interested, here is the real sound and music of this instrument in comparison with Pendulum MDP-1 and Forssell JMP2 (from this CD).

Pendulum

Forssell

Any instrument I tried with Forssell, sounds so full, big and real ... (like no preamp before)

A complete comparison with many other preamps (including Flamingo, Lavry, DAV, Fetcode etc.) can be found HERE

[Peter Montessi]

I have to love Ivo,


Ivo received a Pacifica that was damaged during shipping but STILL continued on with his A/B Testing with a damaged unit.
BUT he fails to state this when he makes these statements.

But has always it's good if you can compare the units you are considering.


Peter

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Amstel

Hey Allen, you like a heineken when being online?

what is a heineken?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Peter Montessi

I have to love Ivo,


Ivo received a Pacifica that was damaged during shipping but STILL continued on with his A/B Testing with a damaged unit.
BUT he fails to state this when he makes these statements.

But has always it's good if you can compare the units you are considering.


Peter

Peter, it was just a loose plastic cap of one of the gain knobs, which was immediately and easily re-screwed and tightened when returned to the dealer (and was ready for a normal sale) , so it was just an external thing which had nothing to do with the sound, I suppose (just setting the left gain was a bit more difficult, having just the metal ending there) ... Correct me if I am wrong ...

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Not really ideal for acoustic sources, unless you want them to sound with slightly hyped HF, scooped mids and 2D .. This was my impression when trying it ...

As to acoustic recording I've found the differences between the Pacifica and the Forssell to be very dependent on the mic/source. Both are excellent and capable of stunning quality on the proper source. They do sound different, no doubt, but to dismiss the Pacifica out of hand is a mistake. I pick the Forssell for more refined/smooth sources and find that the Pacifica likes things a little more aggressive (probably the high iron content). I'm very happy to have both at my disposal. YMMV

[kats]

My love for the Helios type69's is primarily due to how they bring out the timber of acoustic instruments.

I'm very passionate about my midrange

[Peter Montessi]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Peter, it was just a loose plastic cap of one of the gain knobs, which was immediately and easily re-screwed and tightened when returned to the dealer (and was ready for a normal sale) , so it was just an external thing which had nothing to do with the sound, I suppose (just setting the left gain was a bit more difficult, having just the metal ending there) ... Correct me if I am wrong ...

Ivo,

No I don't mind correcting you.

First, the "Plastic cap" that you so kindly refer to is a milled aluminum custom anodized $2.98 part. But, I wouldn't expect you to know that, or care. You are not a technician, you are an artist. And I completely understand that.

Second, according to my records, I sent my distributor a replacement output transformer and a fully populated pcb board. Now, I don't know what channels these were used on. I was just told these were not up to standard. I have no reason to doubt my distributor, because he has to pay for the technicians to repair.

My question to you, Ivo, is if you had just spent $2,000 on a piece of equipment and you received it and opened it up and saw something wasn't exactly right -- (1)would you keep it or (2) would you return it immediately, or (3) would you continue to record with it?

If you chose to return the damaged product, why didn't you show the same courtesy in this scenario?

If you chose to continue to record with it, then I can't help you!

Maybe now you understand my concern when I read your negative posts for the last several months.

Actually, I'm very surprised the unit worked.......let alone pass an audio signal!

I find you to be a very fair and understanding person. And I have heard your music - it's not my cup of tea - but I hope for the best for you and that you sell 10 million copies. (I hope you can share some of the profits!)

I consider the art of composing and recording to be very well done. I wish you nothing but success.

Maybe next time when you see something out of the ordinary on a piece of equipment that is shipped to you - you will question it more.

Respectfully,
Peter

[Midiguy]

Yeah - this thread contains some of the first really negative comments I've ever seen about the Pacifica.

[darkwavo]

Originally Posted by sillypants

big, warm, clear sound.

telefunken V72 pair racked by Dave Marquette.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by darkwavo

telefunken V72 pair racked by Dave Marquette.

Also very nice
V72s from Tab-Funkenwerk is another winner!

[vernier]

Whats an acoustic source?

[Mick@itc]

Hi Sillypants (you gotta change that!!!)
I use the Pacifica on acoustic guitar with a Lawson L47 and it gives me a very nice sound. Sure I can plug the Lawson into other pres and I get a DIFFERENT sound that may be more suptable for another given context but there is no way I would say the Pacifica is Honky in my applications.

I know it has been said over and over but the best thing is to grab your fav mic (the one you really know) and listen to a few pres using it as your reference.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Mick

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Peter Montessi

Ivo,


Actually, I'm very surprised the unit worked.......let alone pass an audio signal!

Peter, I have absolutely no reason to do something improper - my only passionate interest is to explore various "music alchemy devices" . Just the external gain cap was loose during the shipping of Pacifica, so I supposed that it had nothing to do with the sound (one of the Forssell preamps had much more substantial damage - was not packed very well - yet the sound was unaffected). This is the message from the dealer, I received immediately upon returning the Pacifica:

>>> On 21.3.2007 at 14:27:41 Hans Peter Bentheimer - station-music bentheimer@station-music.de wrote:

>
Hello,
got the unite today back - the button was lose from the shipping - only a the samle screw must be fixed - now it is perfect

Thank you

Hans-Peter

===============================
station music GmbH

So it clearly indicated to me that it was just an external detail ... otherwise I would not dare to share my subjective impressions ... If I am wrong and the loose plastic cap on the left gain button could affect the whole sound till the time it was fixed again (which would be a bit surprising), then I better think I did not hear this preamp in its full potential and all my comments are not based on a normal sound of this unit. And would definitely like to try it again ..

[mixerguy]

re - Pacifica

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Not really ideal for acoustic sources, unless you want them to sound with slightly hyped HF, scooped mids and 2D .. This was my impression when trying it ...

OK well - i'm amazed.

The Pacifica is an AWESOME preamp. Run it with the pad out, and it is clean - a lot like a Millennia hv3d - and that is a compliment. Run it with the pad in, and it becomes bigger, fatter, jucier, yummier.

The Pacifica rocks... and many, many people here on Gearslutz agree. A-Designs and Peter Montessi also rock!

But to the original poster - don't believe me - but get your hands on a unit and try it out - with pad out, and PAD IN.

thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

[Dyer Maker]

That Forssell sure looks beautiful. I can not wait to try one.

I have used the pacifica quite a bit. Its a really cool flavor. I would never call it Honky or
2D.

[SighBorg]

Check out the John Hardy M-1/M-2s on acoustic instruments.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Mirage

Forssell is smooth sounding BUT very synthethic! I liked the other pres better on isedlaczek site.

isedlaczek - do you mean me ? And did you get to this conclusion by listening to those small samples ? First - it is quite difficult, if not impossible to judge which preamp sounds more natural or more "synthetic" without knowing the original live sound. Second - you can call Forssell preamp by many names, but definitely not "synthetic". In fact, out of those preamps (and others as well), results recorded through Forssell SMP-2 sounded always the closest to the source, most realistic and natural (including the natural feeling of space)
I recommend you trying it (or any other preamp) and only then get to some real conclusion

[mosrite]

Neve 1073, absolutely incredible on acoustic sources. Am I missing something????

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Neve 1073, absolutely incredible on acoustic sources. Am I missing something????

But here we already get to rather strong coloration I think. I had one here. My impression was - boosted low mids, slightly less detailed highs and generally one style paint for everything (like wearing a mask). Can be great for many things but I am not so sure about cases when you want to capture a realistic fully detailed sound ? (like a classical ensemble, soloist, choir etc. ?)