Parab mics & mini radio mics for Sports TV Production...

[huub]

Hiii all.

I have been trying out parab mics for a bunch of (sports tv) productions,
Am kind of dissapointed, can't get a better than sennheiser 816 sound..
Tried omnis,cardiods, hell, even a 416 in there..

Can anybody tell me what's most essential for getting good parab sound?
is it

-experienced and motivated operators (which we haven't in europe im afraid)
-mic placement/distance
-or can't I expect more directivity than a senn 816?

On a similar note; I know espn uses super miniature mics/transmitters for the x-games,
does anybody know what they use? haven't seen anything like em on a european AES or in trade magazines...

Thanks all!

[Remoteness]

I cannot help you on this, but there are a few TV sports engineers aroiund these parts.

Perhaps this bumpage will help them see this post.

Besides the Sennheisers what brand of mics have you used already?

[huub]

Tried mke2 omni's, km 140 cardiods and 416's..
More bumpage

[Jim vanBergen]

For me, a good parab sound is all about pairing the RIGHT parabolic collector with the right microphone in the reflector.

I have better luck using 2' parabolics some applications, and 4' for others, and for some applications I use omni mics in the parab and sometimes cardioid. It's VERY application specific, and I won't use them unless I have lots of time to try them.

816s and 416s (as well as MKH60 & MKH70, and the Neumann KM82ii mics are pretty darn excellent shotgun microphones.

Can you be more specific about what you are trying to do?

JvB

[huub]

Thanks Jim,
This is for a new european field hockey league.
The producer wants to get real close field sounds, what I've tried is two parab operators (left and right side of the field).
There's another round this weekend in belgium, and I'm thinking of just putting out more field mics, and having just one parab to experiment.

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by huub

There's another round this weekend in belgium, and I'm thinking of just putting out more field mics, and having just one parab to experiment.

I think that is an excellent approach. Put out what will be consistent, and use the one parab as a test to see if you can get something better! I have found an A2 with a boom can be better than a parab op, but they HAVE to have a monitor path in either situation.

Cheers!

[bjornson]

On the Fox NFL stuff I do, They use a combination of neumann cardioids and omnis in the parabs. If they ask you to switch out at halftime it's because
1) you were doing really good, or
2) really bad....

[huub]

Thanks dave,
do you mean either a neuman or omni?
Do you switch between em during the game?

[huub]

Am getting very good results this weekend with large parabs, omni dpa's fairly deep into the dish, detailed sound all over the field! (two parabs and a buch of 416's)

[Jim vanBergen]

I'm not answering for Dave, but in my position, YES, it's carry both the Cardioid & Omni version of a mic (such as DPA 4007 & 4011) and use one or the other.

I'm so glad things are working better for you this time around! Parabs can be great, but they sure are particular about...well, about EVERYTHING!

[See and Hear]

I just unexpectedly acquired some parabolic equipment

What else is used/needed in conjunction with the parabolic mic?
I know there is a shell and the mic. How does the op listen to where he is pointing. Are the parabolics on wireless with the op listening in on the transmiter with buds and full headset wireless com from truck. Or is he plugged into fp33 on headphones and com on earbuds or is this all submixed to him
Would the big tucks accept an octava 012 in the parabolic

What does a parabolic system and tech rent out for a day.

[tourtelot]

Originally Posted by huub

Am getting very good results this weekend with large parabs, omni dpa's fairly deep into the dish, detailed sound all over the field! (two parabs and a buch of 416's)

There is a specific point "into the dish" that the mic should be placed. Back "in my youth" when I mixed sports for TV, the trucks all had Sony dishes with a very prominent "place mic here" line. The whole idea of a parab is to focus the sound gathered at one point in the dish so the mic can pick it up. If your dishes are unmarked, perhaps you can listen and move the mic. The point should be rather obvious I would think; thin and diffuse to, Wow! There it is!

D.

[Rolo 46]

Parabolas are best for mids upper mids, ie birdsong.
You must be at the focal point of the parabola
It is possible to put a MS pair in there with a Rycote
Stereo Parabola.
Over here its MKH 416 for SKY Footie and plenty of 'em.

[chuck1]

I'm actually A2'ing CFL football right now for TSN, so thought I would chime in with what we use. For regular season games, we have 2 parabs in play. Near and Far.

We use Sennheiser wireless transmitters and a directional lav mic pointed at the centre of the dish. The parab ops wear an IFB that includes a mix of their parab with program sound. The A1 can also talk to them on this IFB. For playoff games, we use 4 parabs. Near left/right, and far left/right.

I attached a picture of my wireless world for fun.

[CasperC]

I am an A2. Pretty much reguardless of the gig we place Sennheiser ecm 77 in the parab. You focus the mic by placing it 4-6 inches from the center of the dish. Thats how we get the sound of the game. Its standard. That sound should be the ticket for you

[Remoteness]

I believe you are referring to using Sony ECM77s or ECM77Bs...

Sennheiser does not make an ECM series lavalier;-)

Originally Posted by CasperC

I am an A2. Pretty much reguardless of the gig we place Sennheiser ecm 77 in the parab. You focus the mic by placing it 4-6 inches from the center of the dish. Thats how we get the sound of the game. Its standard. That sound should be the ticket for you

[philper]

There was just an interesting article quoted on JWSOUND.net about how NFL is going to go with many more wireless mics on players/refs etc (under strict control of the league about when the mic is open) because they were not getting the close-up audio of the game they wanted from side-line parabs etc.. The problem with all those mics is that they are often too far away to not hear substantial crowd noise along with the audio they want.

phil p

[boojum]

Originally Posted by tourtelot

There is a specific point "into the dish" that the mic should be placed.
D.

Think of placing a bulb in your auto headlight reflector. It only works really well in one spot.

[CasperC]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I believe you are referring to using Sony ECM77s or ECM77Bs...

Sennheiser does not make an ECM series lavalier;-)

Oops.... Thanks. I meant Sony ecm-77. Thanks for correcting me