Preamps with onboard M+S?

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by Omicron_9

Greetings.

I'm well into the search for mic pre with on-board M+S. So far, here are the ones about which I know:

Grace
Mackie Onyx 900
True Systems


What others are there which I'm missing?

TIA,
-0.9

AMEK 9098

[Omicron_9]

Greetings.

I'm well into the search for mic pre with on-board M+S. So far, here are the ones about which I know:

Grace
Mackie Onyx 900
True Systems


What others are there which I'm missing?

TIA,
-0.9

[Jimbo]

The Metric Halo +DSP units (both the 2882 and ULN2) have M/S encoder/decoders in the +DSP patchbay...along with a ton of other digital processes.

These are Mac only, though.

[jomo1234]

The Peach Audio M196se....a pre like no other... yummy.

[screamingcatfish]

i have a sound devices 702 and it is the coolest unit....with m-s.....actually it has a couple different m-s settings....also 2 preamps which sound pretty good.....manipulating m-s with different mics lends itself to tons of sounds which distract me away from the kind of preamp this is..the preamps are WAY better than any preamp at guitar center.....they are extremely quiet and have their own kind of sheen to them..............but i think the preamps go unnoticed when your using good mics .....the unit also has a limiter.low freq cut,phantom.......aaaannndddd a high quality recorder..192 khz...and 80 or so presets with a programmable lcd.it's good for recording sound effects but i quickly realized i could use an sm7b and a senn mkh 30 for screaming vocals all the way down to whispers.....check it out on their website.......they also sell $500.00 or so jensen tranny preamp.....i sold my martech because i like this more in my voiceover studio..this unit looks cooler than almost any unit...
it's THE swiss army box........for m-s....

[audiothings]

apogee mini mp, sound devices 442, 302. can't think of anything else right now...

[XLR]

Schoeps VMS 5 U,
a small portable one.

[ghellquist]

Sligthly off-topic, but the mixer in the Fireface 800 and 400 allows you to decode MS. This makes it easy to record MS but monitoring decoded. Versatile stuff that mixer once you get the hang of it, the MS setting is sort of not easy to find. The Digiface/Multiface and so on does not matrix though.

Gunnar

[big country]

I remember reading about a trick to do M/S in any DAW
just cant remember it

might want to try a search
or maybe some one will spill their knowledge

what does the actual processing do any how
maybe you can figure it out from their
( i should know this )
more proof of the "you gotta use it theory"

My cable is running at dial up speed
or I would look around

[big country]

I think its goes something like this
please correct me if I'm wrong as I have never tried this
and it is some one Else's Idea

double the side Mic track in the DAW pan hard each track left and right

I think you keep the middle Mic paned center

I think this is what MS processing does

[XLR]

I guess You also need a phase shift on one of the side mic tracks.

I don't know how a DAW will handle it, but I guess it can't be much different from what I'm doing with a cable: Doubling the S mic, but one out with reversed polarity.

Like this:

If you don't have a console that will let you do MS you can make your own adaptor if you're handy with a soldering iron.

NEVER EVER USE THIS ADAPTOR WITH A MIC THAT USES PHANTOM POWER.

You only need this on the Fig 8 mic, not on the mid mic. Of the mics above I have suggested only the Rode K2 is suitable for use with this little adaptor.

Solder 2 sets of wires coming out of a Female XLR connector (this will plug into the audio output of mic power supply). Pin 1 Earth, Pin 2 +ve and pin 3 -ve. One set of cables solder into a male plug to go into your console or recording device using the same P1 E, P2 +, & P3 -.

Solder the other set of cables in reverse polarity into another Male XLR for to go into another channel. ie Pin 1 Earth, pin 2 -ve & pin 3 +ve.

So all up you have 3 connectors coming out of 2 mics ... one out of the mid cardioid mic & 2 (out of phase with each other) out of the Fig 8 mic (side mic).

Run the 2 out of phase signals into a channel each on your desk and bring the faders up (panned centre) one at a time while the guitar is being played. As you bring the first fader up the sound of the guitar will get louder (of course), then as you bring the 2nd channel up the guitar will get quieter until it is gone completely (because this signal is cancelling out the other one). Now pan these 2 channels hard left and right. you should now have sound again.

Now bring the mid mic up on the third channel and ... WOW!

set the mid mic fader to where your listening pleasure is!

[Roland]

Originally Posted by XLR

I guess You also need a phase shift on one of the side mic tracks.

I don't know how a DAW will handle it, but I guess it can't be much different from what I'm doing with a cable: Doubling the S mic, but one out with reversed polarity.

Like this:

Pyramix has both normal or MS inputs, you just assign your side mic to an S input and it's there.

Regards


Roland

[ghellquist]

In programs that can run VST inserts, the free plugin MSed from Voxengo does the trick.

Gunnar

[big country]

ah yes , all important phase

thanks XLR
or cannon X latch rubber

I had suspension on the timing issue
but I was thinking that you could move one of the side Mic tracks forward a notch
I never once thought about the phase
I guess the word, processing through me off
when in actuality it was just a phase inverted split

[big country]

do you pan in M/S


a Little sum sum
SCHOEPS double-ms
can you say holly quad!

[big country]

dmsplugin_download


dmsplugin1_E

[big country]

It needs wingy thingies ( blinders) with phase canceling holes that strategically change
(think jek-aline)
for the M/S to work properly in Phase


maybe like this bt with me-can-ical filters
M shape
bi-focal phase cancellation 1(@)3

[David Rick]

Originally Posted by Roland

Pyramix has both normal or MS inputs, you just assign your side mic to an S input and it's there.
Roland

In Sequoia/Samplitude, you pan the M mic's track to center. For the S mic, there's a track preset labeled "Convert Side signal (Mono) to Stereo".

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[NorseHorse]

Great River MP-2M

It should be on it's way to me now.

With onboard M/S encoding wahoo!

[ESL]

Universal Audio DCS

[aracu]

"Sligthly off-topic, but the mixer in the Fireface 800 and 400 allows you to decode MS. This makes it easy to record MS but monitoring decoded. Versatile stuff that mixer once you get the hang of it, the MS setting is sort of not easy to find. The Digiface/Multiface and so on does not matrix though." Gunner

Hey that's cool! Could you explain more or less how you have it set... thanks, Aracu.

A little off topic also, but a very nice sounding ms combo of mics is Royer sf24
upper capsule as mid, with Senn 800 set to fig 8 as side, placed right above
it. Tried it as an experiment with children singing on a film soundtrack, and was surprised how well it worked.

[mh_bj]

Mobile I/O ULN-2 and 2882 come with M/S Decode, and can be configured for stand-alone operation. So you can decode while recording to the computer, or while just using the unit as a preamp/converter. One of our guys has a preset for recording M/S from the SPDIF output (into a Microtrack IIRC) while monitoring L/R on the cans -- pretty neat.

[GordZilla]

Originally Posted by big country

I remember reading about a trick to do M/S in any DAW
just cant remember it

might want to try a search
or maybe some one will spill their knowledge

what does the actual processing do any how
maybe you can figure it out from their
( i should know this )
more proof of the "you gotta use it theory"

My cable is running at dial up speed
or I would look around

It's fairly easy actually... the way I usually do it (in Sonar) is:

- bring in the seperate cardiod "mid", and figure-8 "side" tracks
- copy/clone the "side track", and flip the phase on the copy (180)
- group the two "side" tracks
- now you can easily adjust the width of your stereo field by increasing (for more width) or decreasing (for less width) the levels of the grouped "side" tracks

M/S is way cool I especially like it for drum room mics.

Regards

[iluvatar]

Originally Posted by GordZilla

It's fairly easy actually... the way I usually do it (in Sonar) is:

- bring in the seperate cardiod "mid", and figure-8 "side" tracks
- copy/clone the "side track", and flip the phase on the copy (180)
- group the two "side" tracks
- now you can easily adjust the width of your stereo field by increasing (for more width) or decreasing (for less width) the levels of the grouped "side" tracks

M/S is way cool I especially like it for drum room mics.

Regards

Don't forget to pan the side tracks L & R. Another option is to route the side track to a stereo aux/buss and just reverse the polarity of one side.

-Dan.