Recording,mixing the double bass

[bass man]

Hi everyone

Nice forum here !!!

Lets talk mixing and recording the double bass (jazz style).

i record the double bass using well known mikes (u 87,tlm 103,tlm 193,c 414 b-uls km 184 etc ...) and pick ups ( realist and
old underwood ) .Usually i record two signals.
For example:
1. mike around the f hole + mike pointing the finger board
2. mike in front of the bridge + mike pointing the finger board ( with more distance -depends on the room quality )
3. Realist ( very woody and fat sounding pick up ) + mike between the finger board and bridge of the instrument
4. realist + underwood at the same time for harder sessions
with loud drummer and winds no isolation
5.Sdc ( km 184 or similar ) or also dynamic mikes ( ev or sennheiser ....) in the bridge or in the string holder for better isolation etc ....


I have really great results with the techniques mentioned above . All the tracks are nice sounding ....but always to much low end
Of course there is a proxy effect on all of these mikes working against the transparent sound of the contrabass so it means you have to roll of some the frequencies in the lower range of the instrument . Sometimes its around 90 hz
sometimes 60 hz , sometimes you have to start at 120 hz and mabe even 200 hz but its always have to be EQ on the end .
My real problem is sometimes that i am using bass roll of on the mike or the preamp and i still need to take some freq. around 120 hz out - its really strange !!!!
There is one more thing i did and that is recording bass with the two mikes and then switch the phase on one track and increasing the volume slow til the sound is right so no Eq or comp. used .But i am not sure if its clever thing to do ....
So i am talking here about bass tracks that are good till perfect isolated from other instruments (drums, sax,tr,piano etc ) .Isolation of the bass is something else ......
I would like to hear your experiences on recording and specially mixing the double bass .Are you using bass roll of on your mikes - preamps ?Do you have the similar experiences ? Am i on the right way ?
I like the bass sound of : Charlie Haden ,Dave Holland ,John Patitucci ....
Hope to hear from you guys !!!

Nice day

[picksail]

The last time I cut upright bass was maybe back in the spring.

I think it was on an Adam Cohen session. Can't remember because I worked on tons of session around that time.

Anyway...

The producer was in the room next door and asked me if I'd come by his studio for a listen. I grabbed the only ribbon he had, which was a CAD, I believe. Found the sweet spot on the bass and stuck it in front of the guy. Walked next door to get back to work. The producer stopped by a couple hours later and told me it was the best upright sound he'd even attained. Mind you, this producer is also a well renowned bassist. He just blended the DI with the ribbon. That's it.

I produced an album about three year sago, which featured James Singleton on upright. This guy is one sick SOB. I pulled out everything. DI. SM7 on the between the bridge and the f-hole. I put a ribbon (AEA R84) at the nut cause I like to cover both nodes. I think I may have used an ambience mic as well. Maybe a 47 or something. His DI was split into dry and wet, as he played with an assortment of FX pedals.

Good times.

[Sigma]

600 hz gives it the "nose " to cut thru,,and remember 40hz was about it for vinyl ..so roll off accordingly if you want that tighter sound

[Jim Williams]

Pull the mics back! Anything closer than 2 feet will add proximity effect to cardiod patterns. Or switch to omni's.

I love the depth of an upright, I don't like humps in the low registers.

I have had wonderful results with modified 414B's. I used them on Buell Nedlinger's CD "Blue Chopsticks" with no EQ or compression on the entire recording. He played with the Boston Symphony for 30 years and was LA's top upright session player that did every big movie track in the 80's and 90's. Think "Batman".

Randy Landis, LA session player and builder of electric uprights uses a cheap Marshall made MCA SP-1 on his recordings. That mic costs $39.99 at:
DJ Equipment, Stage lighting and Pro Audio from ProSound
These were modified with MIT caps, quiet transistors and the low end was extended to below 20 hz.

None of these guys would ever think of using the pickup for recording, BTW. Those basses cost too much and sound best natural.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[bass man]

Wouw thanks people , nice answers and so many - vrry nice .

I dont like the pickup my self but always record it as a back up track , almost never using it . But dont forget pick up can save lives with the drumer and also a lot of bassist like Dave Holland etc... always use the pickup and for the live gigs almost everybody ...

Putting the mike back 2 or even 3 fts is a great idea i did it and was happy but then if the sound of the room isnt good ....

Thanks for nice posts and please dont stop