Orchestra and Rock Band Recording

[ext_frequency]

I have a fairly large project coming up but it comes with twist. I've recorded various contemporary christian bands/gospel bands with full "rock" bands and choirs, but this new project comes with something a little different. A dam orchestra! 5 1st violins, 4 2nd violins, 3 violas, 2 cellos, 1 upright bass, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones, 3 french horns, 2 flutes, 1 clarinet, 2 timpani's and a orchestral percussion not including mallet percussion and that's not including the band, with drums bass guitars etc.

To all you pros out there, how would you go about micing the orchestra keeping in mind obviously concerns for leakage. This is going to in a theater at a local university not a concert hall so noo long reverbs or such.

The musical director wants the strings to have a very "studio like" sound to it, and what I thought of would be close micing all the strings at the f-holes with lavs (minimize a mess on stage rather than micing up with full size mics) such as the mke-2 and then adding overhead mics 414/tlm103 over certain areas to give it a gelled sound, but with the punch and definition of the closer mics.

The stage is setup with a small pit for the orchestra the choir up on stage and the band to the left and behind the choir. Micing for the band would be a simplistic standard method nothing too fancy because of budget (so no u47 on kick!! e regular good old d12 or beta52, and sm57 on snare etc), and my real concerns would really be for the orchestra.

Any and all suggestions would be greatly greatly greatly appreciated

[hle144]

The good news is a 27 piece orchestra is considered small.

Including a full band and say 20 peeps choir, still manageable.

I was hired at one stretch to be the lead engineer/cordinator for a series of gospel records, live and in the studio and a Christmas album with orchestra (60 pieces).
There were the choir of 250 peeps as well.

If you can, hire a remote truck to do the recording. It will cost, but in my case, I made a little for the idea and made the rest on mixing/editing/overdubbing,,etc...I also came out looking like a genius when the final product sounded stellar to them.

If not, keep in mind that this assignment is ALL ABOUT mic choices, micing, and good pres, especially the pres. With these types of sessions, eq is a luxury. Its got to sound righ the first time.

If you are new to these larger sessions, I would reccommend to record more tracks than you need. Close, far, ambient, take them all. Would suck at the mix to not have enough to get the proper blend. Make a little less and get proper gear if you can. For me, as a freelance engineer at heart, its all about the 2nd gig and so forth...

Hope this helped.

[klaukholm]

That string section is way underpowered even with fairly civilized brass.
depending on the music and the arrangements you may need to put the strings out of the path of the brass. Large gobos come to mind to separate the rest of the orchestra from the strings as much as possible.
I have done these kind of sessions with the strings in a room with the winds while the brass is in the next room. This requires single sided headphone feeds for all.
You may consider those pesky lavalier mics for the strings.

I would do all in my power to keep the volume of the session down if it is not a live concert.

[fifthcircle]

Depends on the band as to the level of success you'll have with this. Up on my website, I have an example of almost exactly what you're doing for reference (although we had a pretty substantial channel count limitation for that gig).

You'll need to mic each stand of string players. If your brass and band are really loud, you'll want to use DPA 4061s on your strings on each player. You can "Y" them together to save channels. Otherwise, in my example, we had a Shure SM81 on each stand positioned quite close. The violins and violas were right behind the pair of chairs aiming over the shoulder about 2 feet away (just out of bow range). Woodwinds were single winds so I had a mic on each player for control over solos, etc... You're going to end up with a manufactured sound either way you look at it. I would also recommend 4 good mics across the front wall of the pit as orchestral area mics. With the number of close mics you have, you'll need to open the sound up a bit and get some blend. This is the only way you'll come close to doing that.

Oh, and don't put lav's anywhere near the f-holes. Position between the bridge and tailpiece of their instruments. DPA's have a pretty slick string mount that works perfectly for this. Otherwise, velcro is your friend to mount these mics.

I would be more concerned with getting enough on your choir. if they are on stage with the band, you're either going to get a crappy choir sound or a lot of bleed or both. I'd suggest for 20 people, to line them up in 2 rows of 10 and use 3 microphones positioned close in an over the singers (so you aren't on axis of their mouths- get over and you'll get a little bit better blend for being so close).

See my outdoor opera thread from a couple weeks back to see a way of dealing with something almost identical to what you are doing (orchestra and choir-wise). Different aesthetic, but similar setup due to other situations at the venue.

--Ben

[ext_frequency]

sorry I forgot to mention this, but the choir is about 100 people, total of about 140-150 performers including pit orchestra band and choir

[fifthcircle]

Why was I thinking it was 20? Oh well... Same concept. I'd make sure with that number of choir members that you have them on risers and if you can, get them curved a bit- it will help consolidate the sound so it can compete against the band. Depending on the size of the layout, you may need to go 5 mics wide. My most recent choir experience that wasn't unlike what you are doing, we put similar mics up, but not identical. On each half, we use DPA 4006's on the ends, and 4061s on the center. This allowed for more mics up there with less phase issues. You have similar sounds, but they'll work as a system much better.

In your case, you may consider running a L-C-R as your main pickup, but add 2 extra mics that are similar between L-C and C-R to make 5 across. You may find that it can help your sound. For example using KM140 mics for your L-C-R and a KM84 for the two extras... I don't usually recommend doing this, but here you have a special case.

--Ben