High end preamp for ribbons at low end prices?

[Tommy-boy]

Originally Posted by kludge

Why not just get one of those R0DE inline doohickeys that add 20db of gain from phantom power? That will buy you enough gain to use any preamp AND protect your mic.

That's what I thought. So I went out and bought a pair. Worst purchase ever. Unbelievably high amount of noise generated by the inline doohickeys. The sound was unuseable. After that I swallowed hard and opened my wallet for a TRP. WOW, what a difference!

There may be more cost effective solutions than the TRP, but the Rodes are not the answer.

-Tom

[7rojo7]

For bone you won't have a problem with level but you'll probably need an EQ (balance prox effect with the top)
I've used a Beyer M260n for bone with great results, much better for live, figure 8 can present a problem there. No EQ needed, easy mic to play to. for tpt too

[Corran]

Originally Posted by Tommy-boy

That's what I thought. So I went out and bought a pair. Worst purchase ever. Unbelievably high amount of noise generated by the inline doohickeys. The sound was unuseable. After that I swallowed hard and opened my wallet for a TRP. WOW, what a difference!

There may be more cost effective solutions than the TRP, but the Rodes are not the answer.

-Tom

If you ever need something like the Rodes again, try the TritonAudio Fethead. I use a pair of them with a B&O stereo mic all the time, excellent results. No noise that I can hear.

OktavaMod - Shop

[rumleymusic]

I normally use my Five Fish SC1 mk2 with ribbons. Modeled after DAV but with 72db of gain with relatively no noise. The catch, you have to make it yourself.

[funnybunnyrecord]

So I'm way into this thread but I still need more info.

I also intend to buy a stereo pair of fat head ribbons. My studio was robbed while I was out of the country so I need to re-up on most everything. So this is what I've been looking at:

in order of interest
1.Cascade FAT HEAD Stereo Pair/ with blumlein bar(stock transformers)
$350

2. Summit Audio 2BA-221 Preamp
$629

3.AEA TRP Dual-Mono Ribbon Microphone Preamp
$868

4.Cloud Microphones Cloudlifter Ribbon Microphone Preamp(phantom powered ribbon preamp)
$289

I am currently using the pres in my Mackie D8B, so I would like something with character to stand out in mix. I can't afford both the summit and the AEA right now.In what order would you buy these....if at all?

my thoughts
1.Cascade Fat Head: I think I'm sold

2. Summit: I heard it might not power the fat head well and its only one channel.

3.AEA TRP: I want one bad but a lot of green and I still need(want a pre with color). Maybe a ribbon is just warm enough.... never owned one.... but I also hear that the fat head is not that great for vocal.

4.Cloudlifter: don't know anything about it..little info on web site..no reviews...look like a sold unit... a summit for vocal and this until I can afford the TRP?

Please help this could go on in my head for another month

[toneguru]

I suggest the Groove Tubes Vipre. Plenty of gain, Impedance selector and great tone.

I recorded vocals thru it with an AEA 44c and it was thee most natural vocal track I have ever heard.

Also consider the Avalon 2022, super clean with impedance selector.

Ribbons rule!

[lostintime]

Originally Posted by funnybunnyrecord

4.Cloudlifter: don't know anything about it..little info on web site..no reviews...look like a sold unit... a summit for vocal and this until I can afford the TRP?

I'm also interested in this device. According to Lynn Fuston in this thread he is receiving a Cloudlifter and intends to do some listening tests.

[funnybunnyrecord]

It seems like picking my first preamp upgrade is something special...There nothing like you First....... So I want it to be "a love that lasts forever". I want a stereo ribbon rig for a room mic to capture the very fun sound that is my soon to be finished tracking room. Im looking for a real live sound out of it

found (more than one) used(with one year parts and labor) Peavey TMP-1 Tube Preamp Upgraded by "mr"Stephen Sank himself(supposivly) for $475... any thoughts?... any reason to draw me away from the AEA.?http://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/wavey.gif

[Mo HGTR]

P-solo ribbon made by true sounds! Very clean,plenty of gain,28k switch. Also works very well with tubes and has a di.

[El Rancho Deluxe]

This is an aside, but it seems like a place to ask a ribbon related question:

I've got a set of fatheads that I run into an Apogee Duet, then to Logic. Would adding an FMR RNP to the chain be a positive difference?

[jnorman]

why dont you consider some of the new active ribbon models, like the golden age R-1, the sontronics sigma. the samson VR-88, the new audio technica ribbons, the nady RSM-8A, and others? with active electronics, they can be used with any normal preamp. several of the models i listed are quite affordable.

[Tone Laborer]

The FMR RNP is a lot of preamp for $500 / 2ch. If you have to have a stereo set, these would be worth an audition. Good quiet clean gain and I think they hang with higher end pres.

I wouldn't get too caught up with the high gain needs. I use Fathead IIs with several different pres and theres always enough gain if your micing within a foot or two. A trombone at 6 in to a foot should be no problem for any decent pre.

If your doing more distant micing it would be more of an issue.

I'd be more mindful of impedance.

[funnybunnyrecord]

I think I going to stop recording all-together and just spend all of my time pointlessly researching preamps that I don't get to hear with my own ears on my own gear in my own room......ah ha ha ha..........

Sorry...... anyways......since I can't buy one of each and dealing with return shipping is no fun.

I was wondering if anyone has tried the Sontronics Sonora (with ribbons?).

I Know that these preamp Q's get old...... Im sure it is best to have many pres that work better for different things.... and I intend to collect more gear forever. However Im also trying to get my studio business off the ground and need these next few buys to get the job done for a while.

It would seem to me that a super clean and quite pre would offer the most flexibility as we can always alter the sound latter....but whats on tape is whats on tape.

I am after a live 3D sound.....but I don't think just high detail means real sound... To me I think the playback image and energy are the most powerful aspects of the sound.

I find that when I mix my pans and reverb setting are effecting the way I enjoy the music....WAY MORE THAN EQ OR COMPRESSION(my least favorite).

So Im in a desperate search of a stereo rig that will make my recording more easy and enjoyable.

Im trying to build this rig for a room mic(not just ambient) but the signature sound of my studio......

tell me your stereo rig (mics and pres) that is the "this is what I hear in the room" sound.

"the guy mic" head baffel mic (way cool and way too much money)

Blumlein X/Y ribbon...if so which one (I think thats the real Q here)

DPA minitures... (wonderful detail and image but where is the dynamic vibe)

Sorry this post is all over the place...

In short your dream stereo room mic rig....GO!

[Xenon]

I have two Royer R-121's an FMR RNP, and Sonosax SM-X2. The RNP gets more than comfortably noisy at the gain needed for Royers in acoustic instrument situations. Usable, depending on the circumstances (e.g., micing a guitar cab perhaps). Questionable on overheads. The Sonosax I received from Royer. It's a wonderful portable design with plenty of dB, but it's "clinical" (so to say). Warm it's not, but super clean, does the job. Sonosax supplies the film and broadcast industry. My buddy has two Vipre's for his R-121 mics. They are golden.

FMR themselves state that the RNP is not a quiet pre, in comparison to some: " Even though there are many mic pres that are quieter, there are very few that have the spurious-free (i.e., distortion-free) spectrum of the RNP8380."

I appreciate the RNP pres, use four channels for on-location recording. But there are real limitations with the R-121 ribbons. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Tone Laborer

The FMR RNP is a lot of preamp for $500 / 2ch. If you have to have a stereo set, these would be worth an audition. Good quiet clean gain and I think they hang with higher end pres.

[boojum]

Resurrecting this thread to discover what the folks in the process of buying inexpensive ribbon pre-amps bought and how they like what they bought. I have a Busman BA-SR1 ribbon with the Lundahl upgrades and am thinking about a pre-amp for it. It has worked OK with the gain in a 788T but the gain is nearly maxed out to make the ribbon work. So what has the thread bought, used and discovered? Same parameters, <$500 if possible.

Thanks

[Rolo 46]

Sandy ,providing you can get peaks to around -20dBFS does it really matter?
SD mic pres are clean,but only 67 dB gain
This can be made up in post.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

Sandy ,providing you can get peaks to around -20dBFS does it really matter?
SD mic pres are clean,but only 67 dB gain
This can be made up in post.

Roger, well, good point. I was considering the pre-amp to get the boost. I have recorded without one and get a good input but low level. Perhaps I am well advised, as you have indicated, to just go along and add the gain in post. I do not know if the different editors would make a difference doing that, but I use SAM and would guess it is about as good as any.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[RobAnderson]

In the "low-end" price range, the Sytek mic amp always had a good reputation for use with ribbons. The DAV BG1U (2 ch) and BG2 (4 ch) are more or less in the same price range, with a few more dB of gain than the Sytek. However, both of these are out of your specified price range.

On the other hand, the Sound Devices mic amps have a fairly good reputation for sonics, and frankly I don't know of many good mic amps that have much more than 60 to 65 dB of gain. If the SD mic amps have 67 dB of gain, I am not sure how much better you will do, unless it's a matter of noise, or loading and impedance.

In short, I am not sure what you might gain (pun intended) by going with an outboard pre, unless you spend a bunch of money.

[NYCruiser]

Originally Posted by jnorman

why dont you consider some of the new active ribbon models, like the golden age R-1, the sontronics sigma. the samson VR-88, the new audio technica ribbons, the nady RSM-8A, and others? with active electronics, they can be used with any normal preamp. several of the models i listed are quite affordable.

^This. I have a pair of the GAP r-1's and they really are nice on a lot of things. Plenty of gain too. The way GAP builds them, they are still the classic transformer coupled ribbon sound with the phantom preamp after that in the signal chain. For around $200 a piece they are a steal.

[ysf]

The Studio Projects VTB1 is made for use with ribbon mics. May be too low end but I've been really surprised and happy with mines perfomance. I did mod mine with a NOS 6681 tube.

Sent from my SCH-R730 using Gearslutz.com

[Fran Guidry]

M-Audio DMP3.

Fran

[Rolo 46]

Originally Posted by RobAnderson

On the other hand, the Sound Devices mic amps have a fairly good reputation for sonics, and frankly I don't know of many good mic amps that have much more than 60 to 65 dB of gain. If the SD mic amps have 67 dB of gain, I am not sure how much better you will do, unless it's a matter of noise, or loading and impedance.

In short, I am not sure what you might gain (pun intended) by going with an outboard pre, unless you spend a bunch of money.

AETA 4MinX has 90dB gain
Nagra /Sonosax 85 +dB gain
Useful on some occasions (I record singing bowls occasionally) and essential with classical music and vintage ribbons imho.

[dwojr]

Of course AEA makes a couple of pres designed to use with ribbons. I'm not sure they would qualify as low-end prices though.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

Sandy ,providing you can get peaks to around -20dBFS does it really matter?
SD mic pres are clean,but only 67 dB gain
This can be made up in post.

Originally Posted by RobAnderson

In the "low-end" price range, the Sytek mic amp always had a good reputation for use with ribbons. The DAV BG1U (2 ch) and BG2 (4 ch) are more or less in the same price range, with a few more dB of gain than the Sytek. However, both of these are out of your specified price range.

On the other hand, the Sound Devices mic amps have a fairly good reputation for sonics, and frankly I don't know of many good mic amps that have much more than 60 to 65 dB of gain. If the SD mic amps have 67 dB of gain, I am not sure how much better you will do, unless it's a matter of noise, or loading and impedance.

In short, I am not sure what you might gain (pun intended) by going with an outboard pre, unless you spend a bunch of money.

Why I love this board. "Nah, you probably do not need those pre-amps." I appreciate the input. Yes, I was getting good sound, yes it was not noisy but I thought that perhaps it would be "better" with a pre-amp and one that did not cost the moon and stars. So a couple of old pros sat me down and said, "Son, ya just don't need it." Now I can concentrate on mic placement and keep those bucks close to me, where I like them.

Thanks guys. And thanks to those with good suggestions for the hardware. If I can get by without a purchase I will.

[Jim Williams]

Roland said it. You want a preamp with very good EIN specs, equivilant input noise. Look to designs with -129 db EIN. That eliminates most all the iron input mic pre designs, no matter how much 'extra' gain they have, they won't be as quiet. Many of those sit at -125 db EIN, the best at -127 db EIN.

For a used, low cost transformerless preamp, the Studio Technologies Mic PreEminence is a good choice. Usually selling at $300, they are a poor man's Millenia preamp, without those edgy BB OPA604 opamps (although you can use those in the ST mic preamp). Drop in a SSM2220, MAT12 or LM394 transistor pair into the front end to replace the stock MAT04 and noise is further reduced.

[nosebleedaudio]

Jim always likes to leave off Pres like the JM-130; -128.5 EIN @150 Ohms..

[Mel Famie]

A dark horse possibility, if you can dig through the options and do a small amount of drilling and soldering- THAT makes demo boards for their superb THAT1512 and THAT1570 chips. The demo boards are extremely versatile- there's phantom power for condensors, or you can jumper it out for ribbons. You just need to provide power (four 9V batteries will work great) and a case. For $100, it's insanely clean and VERY quiet amplification.

[boojum]

Originally Posted by Rolo 46

Sandy ,providing you can get peaks to around -20dBFS does it really matter?
SD mic pres are clean,but only 67 dB gain
This can be made up in post.

Roger, OK, I am beyond my depth with some of these specs, but SD says this of the SD 788T pres:

Gain
(input dBu to ?20 dBFS)
Mic: Off, 0 to 76 dB
Line: Off, -26 to 50 dB

So is that saying what it looks like? 76 dB of gain on mic pre's? If that is the case I will "limp" along with what I have just fine.

[Rolo 46]

76dB of good gain is more than adequate
My SD 702 has 67dB and thats enough for vintage BBC PGS bronze ribbons used in close proximity.
SD designs its mic pres for modern field p48 condensors and RX
Some of which produce serious volts

[adamboon]

Has anyone said Triton Audio D2O or FetHead?
Seriously good options!