Active or Passive Splits For Condenser Mics?

[UK Brendan]

Hi, forgive me for posting another thread about mic splitting! Been searching but i can't find the information i really need...

I do a lot of mobile studio recording but recently a guy i'm working with has asked me to track some live shows for him. I did one but it was a bit of a nightmare as i had no way of splitting mic signals (the majority of which were condensor mics). To make matters worse the FOH boards direct outs were all post fader and the jumpers were buried deep within the desk (cheers allen and heath). Anyway, we managed it in a very DIY way but it left me convinced that i need some mic splits.

Anyway, what i really want to know is wether you can passively split signals from condensor mics with an XLR Y cable? Some say it's no problem to split once or twice but I know there is impedance issues (although nobody can tell me comprehensivley what they might be?). As i mainly work with jazz and classical performers it's mainly condenser mics i'll be wanting to split.

If that's a really bad idea, does a tranformer ballanced passive split improve things? Like some of the cheap samson stuff.

If i've got to shell out for active splits then does anybody know of an 8 or 16 way split that just gives you 1 extra split? All the big pro stuff seems to give you 1 in 5 out or something simillar, all i'm after is a simple 2 way splitt. I'm not feeding multiple recorders, just a Mackie Onyx 1640 into a DA 88.

What a big first post!

Cheers in advance, i'm sure one of you will be able to help.

Brendan.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by UK Brendan

Anyway, what i really want to know is wether you can passively split signals from condensor mics with an XLR Y cable?

Sure. Just don't apply phantom from both sides.

Originally Posted by UK Brendan

If that's a really bad idea, does a tranformer ballanced passive split improve things? Like some of the cheap samson stuff.

It's not a bad idea, but transformer isolation is less likely to give you grounding issues. Although if you set up properly you won't have any issues with a simple split.

Originally Posted by UK Brendan

If i've got to shell out for active splits then does anybody know of an 8 or 16 way split that just gives you 1 extra split? All the big pro stuff seems to give you 1 in 5 out or something simillar, all i'm after is a simple 2 way splitt. I'm not feeding multiple recorders, just a Mackie Onyx 1640 into a DA 88.

I don't think you need active splits at all. I'd try it with a simple 2 way passive non-iso and see what happens. You can build these yourself very inexpensively if you have any soldering skills. Just tie your rig into the same power as FOH to minimize potential ground issues.

If the non-iso split does cause issues, you might look into a transformer based split option, but they will be significantly more expensive.

We have a 24 channel 3 way iso split built around some 8 channel transformer boxes, but we also have a simple 24 channel 2 way non-iso that works just as well in every situation we've tried so far.

You just have to take care in your setup and check your lines extensively, that's all.

Good luck!

[UK Brendan]

Cheers for the speedy replly, You've probably saved me a laod of cash!
Just one thing though. Is an active split amplifying the signal in some way? Basically, why are they so massivley expensive?

Brendan.

[XLR2XLR]

Will there not be 48V going to another mic preamp from that which powers the mic?

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by UK Brendan

Cheers for the speedy replly, You've probably saved me a laod of cash!
Just one thing though. Is an active split amplifying the signal in some way? Basically, why are they so massivley expensive?

Brendan.

Yes it basically amplifies. See here: MSX4 Active Mic Splitters Tech Note

As for being massively expensive, they're really not all THAT much more costly than good passive transformer splits. The real cost is the quality of the transformer.

I've seen numerous passive iso splits that are more expensive than active systems. It all depends on the components and the configuration.

[XLR2XLR]

Sorry, what I was trying to convey was if you effectively parallel a condensor mics output to 2 x mic preamps (1 will power the mic, 1 will not) is there any adverse effects to the preamp that 48V is coming into it from another source?

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

Sorry, what I was trying to convey was if you effectively parallel a condensor mics output to 2 x mic preamps (1 will power the mic, 1 will not) is there any adverse effects to the preamp that 48V is coming into it from another source?

nope. as long as everything's wired properly there should be no issues.

[fifthcircle]

Do it all the time.. No issues with Y cables. Heck, I've split up to 3 ways with passive, non-transformer splits (one PA company I used to work with didn't have transformers in any of their splitters). It can get a bit funky, but it will work...

I prefer using splits with transformers- preferably Jensen or Lundahl. Solves a multitude of problems- most notably grounding issues.

For an easy way to go, check out the Radial 8ox splitters Radial 8ox eight-channel rackmount mic and line splitter. You can get them with Jensen transformers, they are well built and don't break the bank (as good splitters go).

--Ben