recording flamenco guitar

[mfonk]

Hey everyone, I was wondering if you fellow gearslutz could chime in with some advice for recording the acoustic guitar. It is a flamenco body, made of cypress and Ive found it to have a lot of mid highs. I need to record very soon and have wonderful access to way too much ridiculously nice gear. I was hoping people could guide me towards the light of enchanted sonic heaven. Ive checked some posts, but i found a lot dealt more with steel string acoustic, which I feel is completely different.

The style of music is a mixture of pop/rock/flamenco/bossa nova. and a lot of different tunings (if that helps any). alot fingerpicking and aggressive plucking.
I will be recording into my macbook pro through a 003 and apogee rosetta 800 (or an ad8000)

what would you guys use for mics and pres if you had the opportunity to use any thing. what about equalizers and compressors? What kind of mic techniques would you suggest?

heres a list of mics I have access to:
akg c12, c12a, c12vr,c412, c24
akg 451, 452
akg c60
akg c414 buls, bxls, c422, c426 uls
akg c460
b &k (dpa) 4007, 4011, 4006
brauner vm-1, and also a klaus heyne* edition
coles 4038
some crown pzms
earthworks qtc50, tc30
manley black, gold reference
neumann km84, kmr82, m149, m49, m147,* m50, sm69, sm23, km86, sm2, tlm 193, u87, u87a, u67, u 47, ku100
rca 77dx, bx44, 10001
royer sf24
schoeps cmc5 with mk4 cardioid capsule
shure sm81
sony c37a, c800g,
telefunken elam 250, 251

heres the list of pres:
api 512c, 312
boulder jensen
jensen twin swervo
black audio sbmp-01
chandler germanium,tg channel, tg 2
focusrite isa110, isa 428
gml micpre, 2020
grace 801
innovative audio demeter
manley 40db, voxbox
millenia hv3c, stt-1, td1
neve 1073, 1272, 31102
summit tpa200b
universal audio 2-610
vp qlz


any and all advice will be greatly appreciated, thanks!

J

[videoteque]

I love flamenco!

I never recorded proper audio though, I captured in video a lot of shows when I lived in Spain...

My intiution tells me to recomend you this: an SDC near the guitar, and LDC further away. Clean pres, no compression, no EQ, no reverb, no effects. Just a good "guitarrista"!

True flamenco is about "rawness". Remember it!

[SoniA]

Here, at Center of Study of Flamenco (Granada University), we have used a great flamenco hall of the University, AKG1000 to freatboard and AT4030 on bridge recorded with ADL600, and two U87 recorded with UA2-610 for the ambient, during mix we have used LA2A and AD2044, if I remember correctly...
Many flamenco guitarists, here in Andalucia, love tracking with AKG1000 and AKG412c.

[prismtheory]

I have done a few flamenco pieces lately.

Keep it VERY simple. There is no need to for ambiance...ambiant mics will never pick up the finger and hand noises and the pick up against the strings..or finger nails depending on the guitarist. COMPRESSION IS YOUR FRIEND...careful of the attacks though.

I would use a bright mic..or at least a balanced one. U87 worked for me.

One time recently I recorded a Godin electric nylon...Ran it DI and put it through an amp at a low volume. Amp was miced with a ribbon...di went into 1272 into manley vari mu.

Was happy with the tone.

Good luck...should be fun.

[AMIEL]

Godin Guitars are wonderful...but a Classic Flamenco guitarist would not use those guitars to begin with....

[mfonk]

some very interesting stuff, I dont know if I will use compression during tracking, im new to all the hardware outboard gear and dont want to risk it. Ive got to check out c412, should be interesting (wasnt quite a fan of the 414 but then read up that this mic is much closer to the c12 then the others aim to be) so that should be interesting. although I could just use a c12. I dunno.

so far Ive used the akg c24, earthworks qtc 50, and the dpa 4007 mic. the first two I did at my house and while I loved the mics, the dpa blew me away cause I was in a treated room.

That was my discovery to the extreme differences of treatment. I really loved the dpa mic, so nice. but the room was oh so nice.

now I have to try the first two again.
I loved the bright tone of the c24, and the qtc50 was very natural sounding.

also, while I play on a flamenco guitar, and have flamenco influences, I couldnt call myself a flamenco player. just not at that level, however the style im recording is different with flamenco influence. more leaning on bossa nova style textures and rock type riffs. I guess my main point here is that I like the rawness of how flamenco is captured but im not looking to aim for that. Something more edgy and in your face but kind of polished sounding (I guess poppy?) something thick and full. Something that not only captures the guitar but brings it a new flavor, something not too natural sounding I guess (i do love the earthworks, they are amazing no matter where you stick the mic) but not for these songs.

any pres to also recommend? I also forgot to mention my great river mp2h if that helps any. Im in a difficult place where there is way too much gear and not enough time to test each one out.

[Baz]

You have way too many options, imho, if you're not sure and don't know what these pieces already sound like.

All I know is there's definitely a combo there that should be more than adequate to say the least! I'd first want a great or very good sounding room and start with a mono mic setup and then go from there. If you don't have a great space (there's no mention of where you're recording) I'd look to rent a church or something similar with some happening acoustics. Good luck. You could easily spend well over a week playing with all the combo's available to you. It's over the top imo.....

Based solely on my experience - as I haven't used most of that gear listed - I'd start with the 84's and 87 into the Millennia's (the STT-1 set to VT mode, no comp, no EQ) but that's just based on what I know, seeing that I have these items. But if I was recording a flamenco guitar, I'd start with my KM84 for sure.

[mwagener]

I had great results with a Soundfield MK V mic and preamp combo on Flamenco guitar, most natural sounding mic I've heard. Don't compress if you don't have to, Flamenco loves dynamics.

[Audio Hombre]

no soundfield in his list Michael

[mwagener]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

no soundfield in his list Michael

Originally Posted by mfonk

... what would you guys use for mics and pres if you had the opportunity to use any thing...

[mfonk]

that is one crazy setup the soundfield mkv.

has anyone tried out the Neumann KU100?

its ****en awesome looking and quite hilarious. I wonder what sources it shines on

[mfonk]

yeah the space im recording at has about 25 ft ceiling, treated room (its more for 5.1 mixing in a post surrounding) Ill be recording in this room. there are 3 movable baffles (the ones with windows) 2 iso booths. its probably 30 ft x 30 ft (just off the top of my head.)

I guess it makes sense to start with the mono. What stereo methods would you guys suggest once I start adding mics? but my biggest problem is, there is way too much to start off with and limited time. I need an awesome plan of attack before I get into the studio to begin recording.

I love the stt-1 that pre is awesome. I got to mess around with it while tracking my friends vocals through a sony c800. quite the chain.

[walth]

I love KM54s but i don't see those on the list.

I've had great results with DPA/B&K mics and C-12s.
Neve's and ISA-110s two are my favourite mic pres.


I'd get a rosetta 800. don't use the 003.

[PlatinumSamples]

I was looking for (2) KM54's in the mic list as well.. with the 1073's.. no compression. I would use 2 C12A's as my second choice.

Rail

[insomnio]

U87+API
That's the sound. Don't think warm.

[mfonk]

hmmm i hate the u87 but then again it was the new u87 and that mic sound butt ugly, what i do have here though is a 1967 u87 i believe. that should be interesting.

do the 512s and the 312 api pres have different tones? ive tried a 512 for vocals and guitar and it sounded nice. Dont know how to describe it though.

[mahler007]

As somebody who has done a fair amount of nylon string recording, I would recommend:

1. A great hall
2. experimenting with omni directional mics

I have found that close mic'ing with percussive styles of guitar music can wreak havoc on your recording, largely due to the proximity effect inherent in cardioid mics. I guess you could always use a compressor to try and tame those percussive transients (which when close mic'd are exponentially greater relative to the sound of the finger on the string) but I really don't think that's the way to go...

Anyway, good luck!

Cheers,
Andrew