Need advice for this gig Re: HD24/Iso transformers

[Gravity]

Ok, so I'll admit I'm mostly a studio guy, and my location recording has been MOSTLY film drama/doc stuff... So this gig isn't a first but I need some advice.

I'm in Toronto, so anyone who can help with a rental source for what I need would be great.

I'm recording off the house stage split at the Reverb. It's a non-transformer split, and the house guy has reccommended I bring my own transformers. I know working with non-isolated splits is a crap shoot, so I'm wondering if anyone has actually used the split at this venue, and can tell me how nessecary they'll be, and if nesecary, where in toronto can i rent 24ch of isolation xformers?

Second question I've got, I'm recording right to Logic/Protools (haven't decided which rig I'm taking yet depends on how fast my copy of 8 gets to me ;-) ), and I'm going to be using an HD24 as a backup recorder... What's the best way to split the feed at audio world? I'm going to have a rack of various and sundry pres, and my original though was to come out of the pres into the HD24 and use the out's of the HD24 to pass through to my interfaces... Something about this feels off to me though... Can anyone tell me if this is crazy, or if there's a better way to go about this (there is no console involved here if I can avoid it)

Cheers
j

[locosoundman]

If you are running through one recorder and it goes down, it will take the other rig with it.

It would be more advisable to use Y-cables off the back of the pre's to feed both recorders. However, if there is some sort of impedance mismatch on one of the legs causing distortion or saturation, both signals may be effected.

The Apogee AD16 allows complete digital redundancy of 16 channels via ADAT if you are recording at lower sample rates. Likewise, most converters allow you to use multiple output formats simultaneously if the options are installed. This is generally the way to go (if you trust the converters - I had a poorly seated card in an AD16 wreak havoc on me ).

[RawDepth]

Originally Posted by Gravity

Ok, so I'll admit I'm mostly a studio guy, and my location recording has been MOSTLY film drama/doc stuff... So this gig isn't a first but I need some advice.

I'm in Toronto, so anyone who can help with a rental source for what I need would be great.

I'm recording off the house stage split at the Reverb. It's a non-transformer split, and the house guy has reccommended I bring my own transformers. I know working with non-isolated splits is a crap shoot, so I'm wondering if anyone has actually used the split at this venue, and can tell me how nessecary they'll be, and if nesecary, where in toronto can i rent 24ch of isolation xformers?

(SNIP)

Cheers
j

Well, I don’t know the venue but, I am wondering whether you really need them or not. Here's why...


Many years ago, when using non-transformer splits, the two mixers would have a tug-o-war with voltage, so-to-speak. When one guy turned up a channel, the other guy’s would go down a little. However, many argue that with today’s modern mixers and more sensitive mics, it is way less of a problem. Likewise, if the house guy does not change levels very much during the show, you may not need isolating transformers at all. I’ve recorded without them and had no problems, but that doesn’t mean that you will not. It’s one of those “try it and see” situations. A lot of older soundmen still swear by them but some of the younger guys have never needed them and in fact never even heard of them.

I cannot help you with where to rent it but, if you ever decide you want them to keep, here is a lower cost alternative to buying a $2000-$4000 iso-snake.

Audiopile

(This is a mom and pop store with really good service. I think they are in Washington state, but not sure.)

Anyway, good luck and let us know how you made out.

RawDepth

[tnjazz]

Agreed. Transformer isolation is nice to have, but it's not like you can't do an outstanding job without it.

The majority of our shows we use a passive non-iso split and have never had any kind of problem that couldn't be cleared up during the soundcheck.

Also, passing through the HD24 is not a bad idea for backup - it's only an issue if the entire recorder loses power and turns off (not likely, if you are using a UPS like you should!)

If the HD24 stops recording the tracks remain armed and still pass audio, so it would be safer to have it first in the chain.

Of course, splitting the signal before the recorders would certainly be the best and safest method.

[XLR2XLR]

I am strictly low budget but I would not go without transformer isolated split
too many variables out of your control IMO.

HD24 as back up? Apple with Logic main recorder?

Wrong way round IMO.

If you are hiring a bunch of splits hire an HD24 too, must be cheap as chips for a night or 2.

Then you have 2 units with the same operating interface, i would not be happy about
Logic 8 new release for a 1 off gig.

Just my opinion of course.

Hope it goes well.

[Remoteness]

When it comes to whether or not you need a splitter, I look at it this way...

Better to have a splitter and not need it then to need a splitter and not have it.

With that said, it can be done non-isolated especially if you're sharing the same power source.
You must tie in or plug into the same power as the sound system to keep the ground potential to a minimum.