Schoeps M221 or CMC5 for classical piano recording ?

[Laurenzolo]

I have the opportunity to buy a pair of vintage Schoeps M221b with switchable omni to cardioid capsule. (in very good conditions)

On the other hand, for approximately the same price, I can also buy a new pair of Schoeps CMC5 + switchable omni to cardioid capsule.

The pair I would buy will be used for classical piano recording.

Anyone has already used both of these ?

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks for the help !

[mas]

Well, if you can get them for the same price and the M221B´s are in perfect working condition that would be a nobrainer for me. Go with the M221B´s! Quickly!
(Watch out for a blue coloured point above the connector - that´s the 200Ohm version with higher output).

I have both and have done extensive side by side comparisons.
In comparison to the M221B the CMC5 sounds flat, sterile and unattractive (compared to almost any other SDC it´s a really great mic).
But if you have any doubt about the techn. cond. of the 221´s, I would take the CMC5.
Along with this some kind of warning: if the M221B should ever fail or need to be serviced in the future, DONT send them to Schoeps!!! tutt

I sent my pair of 221´s to Schoeps, and they ****ed them up! Sent them back again and they came back even worse! I was really shocked because I never expected that from such an (otherwise) outstanding company. It was a really bad and expensive experience for me.

I´ve spoken with Andreas Grosser about it and eventually will send him the mics. I just try to find another pair for spare.
Meanwhile I use my Colette/CMC mics.

Good luck,

[ioaudio]

everything he said. hi markus btw

while developing some of my own tube mics, markus was so kind to test and compare my mic with both schoeps mics, and he lend me the m221b for further comparison/reference.
the m221b sounds fu**ing glorious! smooth, silky, balanced and characterful at the same time. the cmc5 has more of a "TV-sound" , useful, but not exciting imo.

-max

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by mas

In comparison to the M221B the CMC5 sounds flat, sterile and unattractive (compared to almost any other SDC it´s a really great mic).
But if you have any doubt about the techn. cond. of the 221´s, I would take the CMC5.

I agree with this. the M221B has this certain special nuance that is difficult to describe other than to say that it just tends to be rather flattering. It just makes things sound a little sweeter. The CMC5 is still a fine mic and is very accurate, but it just doesn't have that little something special that the M221 has.Just my opinion though.

[Laurenzolo]

Well, thank you Markus for this advice.

I have been able to test the Schoeps M221, and they sound great. The only comparison I can make is with the Peluso 2247 that I own.

So, what I have noticed, is that the M221 has a certain lack of low frequencies with respect to the Peluso. Obvisously, this can be understood very well when you look at the size of the diafragm on the Peluso (much bigger) Plus, the Peluso is a kind of U47 clone and this latter is known for having a low frequencies boost.

You see, the only point that makes me doubt which mic to buy is that "normally" mics today should be greater than mics 40 years ago.

I obviously know the "vintage" user point of view, but I just wanna to make sure someone already did the test.

So again, thank you very much Markus !

And every other feedback would still be appreciated.

[Laurenzolo]

And also thank you to patrox, ioaudio and mas. (you posted your comments when I was writing my reply!)

[patrox247]

Try not to compare SD condensers to LD condenser mics. They are two different animals, and both do things that the other can't. Good SDC's can be a thing of beauty.

[Paul Hammond]

Definitely the M221B's! I have two pairs, the only thing you have to watch for is that when you own a pair you should try to age them equally if you are ever using them one at a time. This way the tubes and caps all get equal time being used! They are very detailed and sensitive mics. We had one set up for an acoustic recording session once and the performer put on his headphones - about 10 feet away from the mic. He said - what is that clicking sound? We turned up the monitor and heard it too. After a few minutes we figured out it was the performers wristwatch! Good luck getting those mics! Hopefully it will work out good for you.

[massimo]

Any real-life opinions on the m222 (both old and newversions), being the one that is currently available new?

Thank you
best
Massimo

[Laurenzolo]

To Massimo,


Here is what someone owning both (M221 and M222) wrote me a couple of weeks ago :

"I would say the M221 is "warmer" but that is not too say the M222 is cold. I think that the M222 is maybe more resolute and therefore may sound more solid, less warm in comparison to the M221"

Hope this help.

[fifthcircle]

I'd absolutely go with the 221's given a choice.... I'd also make sure that for a piano recording that you have them set in omni. The capsule on those mics has a slightly brighter sound than some of the other Schoeps caps, but it works very well with the 221. For pianos, though, omni is the way to go- you'll have a much more natural sound with a better low end. I'd set them up in an A-B configuration spaced about 2-3 feet apart, 4-6 feet out from the piano and high as the top of the lid (roughly). You'll have to experiment with the room and instrument to find that sweet spot, but when you find it, you'll be golden.


--Ben

[Laurenzolo]

Thanks for the tip. But what do you think about miking a piano with the two mics facing the hammers of the piano vertically : one over the low notes and one over the high notes (omni or cardio, I don't know)

The last two classical videoclips I saw had the piano recorded that way.

[fifthcircle]

Keep them outside of the instrument. As far as I'm concerned, I've never heard a good classical recording with the mics inside. Occasionally, I'll place a mic or a pair at the edge of the instrument when recording a piano as a spot mic (just to touch up the sound), but it takes a bit of space for the sound to completely develop.

Now, for Jazz or pop work, the rules change completely... Placing the mics outside the instrument for solo classical stuff is the only way I'll do it.

--Ben